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theevangelist
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Joined: 2003/8/1
Posts: 82
United States Of America

 Re:

Quote:
I used to think that Romans 7 applied to believers but the more I've been meditating and praying on this chapter the more I believe it relates to unbelievers



I know a Bible College Professor who actually taught that at an A/G Bible College. But I have to disagree. All 3 Chapters are referring to the message of the Cross. What the Apostle Paul was refering to was how the Believer, even though they have come to the saving knowledge of Christ has accepted him as their personal Savior, they are still living under the Law, although the Law really had nothing to do with their conversion.
Romans 7:9 "For I was ALIVE without the Law once..."
(Paul is referring to himself personally and his conversion to Christ; THE LAW, he states, HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS CONVERSION; neither did it have anything to do with his Life in Christ)

"...: but when the Commandment came,..."
(Having just been saved, and not understanding the Cross of Christ, he tried to live for God by Keeping the Commandments through HIS OWN STRENGTH AND POWER; in his defense, no one else at that time really understood the Cross; in fact, the meaning of the Cross, which is actually the meaning of the New Covenant, would be given to Paul)

"...sin revived,..."
(the sin nature will always, without exception, revive under such circumstances, which results in failure)

"...and I died."
(Obviously Paul was not talking about a physical deathe, but that he died to the Commandmen; in other words, he failed to obey no matter how hard he tried; let all believers understand that if the Apostle Paul himself couldn't live for God in this matter, neither can you nor anybody at that matter!) (KJV/JSM)

Just this one verse proves to us that it's referring to the Christian that is struggling by the Law to fufill the Commandments of God which in self is not at all possible. But when YOU are dead to the Law and to the deeds of the flesh(all your "holiness and righteousness/best I can do to live for God" is no good. Isaiah says our righteousness is as filthy rags), through the Cross, Christ through you will through the power of the Holy Spirit fufill the Law. (Gal. 2:19,20)(Phil. 3:9-11)

God Bless!
The Evangelist

 2004/10/4 11:07Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4801


 Re:

Br. Evangelist,

You speak the truth. Look to Job 36 for the insight that was given to Job by Elihu. The disciple has a choice to obey or not to obey. In his flesh there is nothing good. It will never be any good. It is only by obedience to the Spirit that the flesh is crucified by Jesus. It is all about the cross.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/10/4 12:26Profile
theevangelist
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Joined: 2003/8/1
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 Re:

Praise God!!! That's powerful. I've just been blessed to read & hear that Brother Jeff. Praise the Lord for your post. It's all about the Cross!!!


The Evangelist

 2004/10/4 12:29Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
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 Re:

It is true that Romans 7 is based on Romans 6, but then Romans 6 is based on Romans 5. It is in the latter half of Romans 5 that Paul, having spoken of God's provision for sins now begins to show God's provision for sin. It is important to a right understanding of this section of Romans to make a clear distinction between 'sins' which are the acts and 'sin' which is the inner dynamic. 'Sin' is the disease, 'sins' are the symptoms. 'sin', as the inner dynamic cannot be forgiven, it must be brought to an end. We have discussed this at length in 'orignal sin' but inevitably it must be raised here, otherwise Romans 6-8 float in the air.

Rom 5:12 speaks of 'the sin'; because of this, even as through one man the sin did enter into the world, and through the sin the death; and thus to all men the death did pass through, for that all did sin; (Rom 5:12 YLT) Youngs Literal Translation draws attention to the definite article which precedes the word 'sin' in this context. 'Sin' is personified here. Roman 5:12 is making giving us a unique revelation and telling us that at a point in human history 'the sin' entered the world. This is a vital aspect of truth because it demonstrates that 'the sin' is older than the human race and came into the human race from outside. This is the original 'alien' invasion. When it passed into the human race it brought 'the death' with it. Not just physical death, although that is included but the spiritual death that God warned would take place 'in the day you eat of it'. On that day in human history 'the sin' entered and 'the death' followed and our race 'died' in its relationship to Life.

Sins were forgiven in all covenants, but it required the death of Christ as the old Adam to break the power of 'the sin' in our race, and it requires the personal indwelling of the Holy Spirit poured out from the throne to apply this freedom to the individual.


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Ron Bailey

 2004/10/4 13:40Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
(Paul is referring to himself personally and his conversion to Christ; THE LAW, he states, HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS CONVERSION; neither did it have anything to do with his Life in Christ)


The Law is fundemental for us coming to Christ. No man will truly come to Christ without realizing his sinfulness and falling short of the laws and standard of a Holy God. The Law is what needs to preach before Gospel or its heresy. Martin Luther stated in his day there were people who preached "only grace" and he considered that a false gospel.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/10/4 13:50Profile
rookie
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 Re:

Br. Gregg wrote:

Quote:
The Law is what needs to preach before Gospel or its heresy. Martin Luther stated in his day there were people who preached "only grace" and he considered that a false gospel.



Do we not here and see the results of preaching the Gospel of grace all around us. Many Christian today live by the law and are still in bondage to the law. It is only when you hear the voice of God convicting you of your sin, It is only when we begin the follow the Holy Spirit do we indeed begin to understand the total depravity of man. It is only then do we see the evilness of this world for how God sees it do we begin to see the spiritual law that condemns it.

A babe in Christ, will never understand the depravity of self. He is too busy creating ways to stay off the cross.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/10/4 14:15Profile
theevangelist
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 Re:

Greg, you're right to that degree. Why was the Law given? And why was the standards of the Law set so high? It was to show us that in our own strength we could never be able to keep that standard, no matter how hard we tried. The point I'm trying to make is that there is no justification in the Law.
Galatians 3:24,25 says:
v.24 "Wherefore the Law was our schoolmaster..."
(should have been translated "guardian")

"...to bring us unto Christ,..."
(proclaims what the end result of the Law was intended to be)

"that we might be justified by Faith."
(This proclaims to us that the Law had no permanent function, but served only until Christ would come. It is only by FAITH IN CHRIST THAT ONE CAN BE JUSTIFIED. You must remember a man who was used by God to reform the Church using Habbakuk & Paul's words "The Just Shall Live By Faith...here's a hint: read your post) ;-)

v.25 "But after that Faith is come,..."
(Paul is speaking about the finished Work of Christ on the Cross)

"...we are no longer under a schoolmaster."
(This should actually say, "We are no longer under the guardianship of the Law." The Law was TOTALLY FUFILLED IN CHRIST.)(KJV/JSM)

God Bless.
The Evangelist

 2004/10/4 14:29Profile
theevangelist
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United States Of America

 Re:

Quote:
Do we not here and see the results of preaching the Gospel of grace all around us. Many Christian today live by the law and are still in bondage to the law. It is only when you hear the voice of God convicting you of your sin, It is only when we begin the follow the Holy Spirit do we indeed begin to understand the total depravity of man. It is only then do we see the evilness of this world for how God sees it do we begin to see the spiritual law that condemns it.



Man, do I hear you Brother! That's good.

God bless,
The Evangelist

 2004/10/4 14:31Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4801


 Re:

"They said to Him, "Grant us that we may sit, one on Your right hand and the other on Your left, in Your glory."

"But Jesus said to them, "You do not know what you ask, Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?"

They said to Him, "We are able."

So Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink the cup that I drink, and with the baptism I am baptized with you will be baptized;..." Mark 10: 37:38

His disciples did not understand the cross. Yet Jesus promised that they would be baptized into that cross. New believers cannot understand the cross, but if they learn from Him and take His yoke they too will experience the work of the cross in their life.

Many who profess Christ today disparage the law. But what does the writer of Psalm 119 say? "I long for Your salvation, O Lord, and You law is my delight." vs 174

Paul writes, "For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man."

As we follow Christ we will learn to delight in His law. We by following Christ will truly experience what John the Baptist declared. He must increase and I must decrease.

As Evangelist said, the law given on Mount Sinai, was only given to teach what sin was, and that recognition of ones condition will lead you to Christ. The question is do we recognize our depravity the depravity of man as God sees it? Or are we poluted by the effects of Humanism?

The law of faith in Christ will cause us to understand the spiritual law of God.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/10/4 15:03Profile
theevangelist
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 Re:

Chapter 7 is definitly for the Believer!!!

 2004/10/4 17:02Profile





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