I would like to begin a discussion of Romans 6, 7 & 8 and related passages in order to develop a better understanding of what it truly means to be dead to sin. I believe that these three chapters hold a great portion of the key. Shall we begin with Romans 8:1-31) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (AV)2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:8:1) Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (NASB)In Romans 7-9 Paul is teaching us that Old Testament laws are good, holy, and Spiritual- but apart from Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit we are carnal and sold under sin. When we are in Christ we have died to the 'law of sin.' When we speak of the 'law of sin' we are not saying that the law of Moses was sin. It is to say that when a commandment comes apart from the fulness of the Holy Spirit rebellion rises up and that law that was intended to be of life becomes death to us because it arouses all manor of concupiscence. This is because sin is somehow resident and remains dormant until a commandment comes. As Paul said, "When the commandment came sin REVIVED and I died." That indicates that the law by itself could never take away sin. The letter killeth. Yet when the same person is in Christ and full of the Spirit, God's commandments are not grievous and a delight in them manifests in the inward man. To switch metaphors for a moment- the Commandment becomes a source of fulfillment- in that, "Our meat is to do the will of Him that sent us." When we are in the 'flesh' and devoid of the spirit of God that same commandment will serve as an opportunity for the Carnal man to rebel and 'fulfill' the lusts of the flesh. The flesh (carnal man) is 'fed' or 'fullfilled' by DISOBEDIENCE to God. The Spirit filled man is fulfilled by obedience. The carnal man will grow in strength in their wickedness as they remain devoid of the Spirit of God and rebel against the commandments. The Spiritual man grows up and is built up in Christ as they remain full of the Spirit and haply accept the commandments of Christ and do them.We have become dead to the law by the body of Jesus Christ. It is staggering to think of all that took place at the Cross. We died to sin with Christ if we are in Him. We also died to the law of commandments contained in ordinances. In dying to the law we remove the catalyst that causes sin to revive in us. Yet, we are not lawless by any means because we are to be FULL of the Holy Ghost and walking in the commandments of Christ. This is where things get tricky. If we cease to be FULL of the Holy Ghost it seems that a void is created in us that must be filled with something. If we fill that void with earthly things we do not have the fulness of the Holy Ghost to keep all of this (Romans 7-9) working. When the fulness ceases- victory over sin is impossible. We shift into a carnal mode and when the commandment comes sin revives and we die. Where once we delighted in the laws of God we are now tempted to sin by the same laws. Why? It seems that in the absence of the fulness of the Holy Ghost the law has the effect of death- but when we are living in fulness the commandments bring sustanence. Good Place to Start,Any Thoughts?God Bless,-Robert
_________________Robert Wurtz II
Any Thoughts?
_________________Ron Bailey
Yes, it's the helmet of salvation. :-) What's your take on all this brother Ron? I am trying to come to an understanding of these things desperately- I feel like I'm getting closer all the time. My main point of thinking that is different than what I have seen in the past is the necessity of maintaining a continuous state of fulness of the Holy Ghost in order to live out the Christian life in the fulness of all God intended. When we start to 'empty out' (metaphorically) the things of this world come in and the whole dynamic changes.Ezekiel 36:23 - 28I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the Gentiles, which you have profaned in the midst of them: that the Gentiles may know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord of hosts, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the Gentiles, and will gather you together out of all the countries, and will bring you into your own land. And I will pour upon you clean water, and you shall be cleansed from all your filthiness, and I will cleanse you from all your idols. And I will give you a new heart, and put a new spirit within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit in the midst of you:[b][size=x-small]and I will cause you to walk in my commandments,[/size][/b], and to keep my judgments, and do them. And you shall dwell in the land which I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.Let er' rip! God Bless,-Robert
Let er' rip!
Rom 6:3 has Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Great! Lets keep going. So we see then that we are dead to the old man experientially and in a real way. We are dead to the devil, dead to sin, dead to the world, dead to the flesh. And in that death we are now free to be married to Christ and the New Covenant and all that comes with that.
Does it stand to reason that Paul was saying "Be ye filled with the Spirit" because that fulness is necessary to walk in the Spirit. When we cease to actively be filled with the Spirit we hinder our ability to truly walk in the Spirit?
The Spirit that flowed from the throne has, please excuse the crude analogy, all the flavours through which Christ has passed. We do not need a list of separate experiences but we do need to be marinaded in that Spirit.
Where does the light go when you blow out the candle? Light is a process, so is life. Christ's life in us is not just a single event but a process which can only be kept 'fresh' by the continuing flow of the Spirit; for I know that this shall turn out for me to salvation, through your supplication and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ; (Phi 1:19 Darby) this 'supply' is literally a 'further supply'.
How we doin' so far?
Brother Robert wrote:
_________________Jeff Marshalek
Our paths defines the evidence of what we hope in.
Faith comes by hearing the word of God. As John pointed out, young men become strong in the word of God. It is the word that fills our heart which will change our desires in this life. Do we choose to hear the word, or do we choose another day living for the things of this world. Where is our treasure? As you pointed out Robert, it is unbelief in the promises that God gives us in His word. It is unbelief that the Spirit of God strives against. Salvation is everyday. Do we want to be near so that we can hear? Or do we shrink back. Each of us must count the cost. We stumble, and sometimes become the prodigal son. Yet for those who remember the goodness of our Lord and return, He is faithful to convince us of His ways. Paul was convinced, can we say the same?In ChristJeff