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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Cornelius, total depravity, works, a questions?...

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yoadam
Member



Joined: 2009/2/10
Posts: 97
OREGON

 Re:

Quote:

rookie wrote:
This is the testimony we have concerning Cornelius...

..................................................................................................
Acts 10:30 So Cornelius said, “Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing, 31 and said, “Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your alms are remembered in the sight of God.
...............................................................................................


In the above Scripture, Cornelius is told that the Lord has heard his prayers...

In the following Scripture we have this precept....

..................................................................................................
Prov. 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD,
But the prayer of the upright is His delight.

Prov. 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked,
But He hears the prayer of the righteous.
...................................................................................................

According to Scripture Cornelius was righteous because God only hears the prayers of the righteous.


How did Cornelius attain this righteous position before meeting Peter?

In Christ
Jeff



Hi Jeff.

I like the way Matthew Henry put it in his chapter introduction to Acts chapter 10. It's short & sweet:

[b]"Doubtless Cornelius had true faith in God's word, as far as he understood it, though not as yet clear faith in Christ. This was the work of the Spirit of God, through the mediation of Jesus, even before Cornelius knew him, as is the case with us all when we, who before were dead in sin, are made alive. Through Christ also his prayers and alms were accepted, which otherwise would have been rejected. Without dispute or delay Cornelius was obedient to the heavenly vision. In the affairs of our souls, let us not lose time."[/b]
http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.php?com=mhc&b=44&c=10

Quote:

TaylorOtwell wrote:

So, apparently the Lord was working in Cornelius to draw Cornelius to Himself, even though Cornelius wasn't to the point of understanding about Christ yet.

What do you think?

With care in Christ,
Taylor


EXACTLY. :-)

Quote:

Alive-to-God wrote:
Hi anonymity,

Quote:
but it seems here that God came to him because of the good that he was doing? Or maybe those were acts of humility but they were also of love it would seem.

Rather, God seeks a face-to-face relationship with man, and accepts the honest seeker Heb 11:6 who acknowledges Him?


The problem with this is that there are no "honest seekers." They don't exist. Only God-hating rebels who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. Rom. 1:18 , Rom. 1:30 (Please read my first post on page 1 of this discussion.) So in your salvation scheme, you have the entire world of fallen humanity going to hell and no salvation is possible for anybody. On top of all this depravity, we find that "faith" itself is the gift of God! Eph. 2:8 To say we are saved by choosing our Lord is true, but to say that we made the choice in and of our own will, (which is damnably evil), is to have salvation by works and to deny the scripture. Eph. 2:9 The truth of the matter is we who believe are effectually called by the grace God. Those whom God ordains to eternal life are the only ones who will choose to believe. Acts 13:48 [i]"48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."[/i] Again, I say, [b]who chose who?[/b] Did we choose Jesus and thereby gain eternal life? Or did He choose us and thereby we gained eternal life? John 15:16, [i]"16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."[/i]

Watch the following Paul Washer video on youtube:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRGMp0md5CE]"I don't understand Election"[/url]

And also check out the Westminster Confession of the Puritans once again. It explains these truths better than I can!

[b]Chapter X
Of Effectual Calling

I. All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, He is pleased, in His appointed time, effectually to call,[1] by His Word and Spirit,[2] out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ;[3] enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God,[4] taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them an heart of flesh;[5] renewing their wills, and, by His almighty power, determining them to that which is good,[6] and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ:[7] yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by His grace.[8][/b]

Scripture Proofs:
[1] ROM 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. EPH 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.

[2] 2TH 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2CO 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

[3] ROM 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. EPH 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved). 2TI 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

[4] ACT 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. 1CO 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. EPH 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.

[5] EZE 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

[6] EZE 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh. PHI 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. DEU 30:6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. EZE 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

[7] EPH 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power. JOH 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

[8] SON 1:4 Draw me, we will run after thee. PSA 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. JOH 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. ROM 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


_________________
Adam

 2009/7/31 23:44Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Jeff and all,


Jeff,


"How did Cornelius attain this righteous position before meeting Peter?"



Your question brought to mind what Peter said to him before he was baptised with the Holy Spirit:


"Then Peter opened [i]his[/i] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."


- Acts 10:34-35(KJV)








_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/8/1 4:56Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Alive-to-God,



"Rather, God seeks a face-to-face relationship with man, and accepts the honest seeker Heb 11:6 who acknowledges Him?"



This brings to mind Acts 17:27 and John 12:21.


It doesn't at all seem(to me) that those that came to Phillip seeking the Lord Jesus, did so because they hated him. I think that the Lord Jesus indicated that those that would persecute believers would do so because they do not know God, not because they do(John 15:21), and that it was those that had seen Him and all the works that He did, that hated Him(John 15:24).




Wish you well,


Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/8/1 5:11Profile
yoadam
Member



Joined: 2009/2/10
Posts: 97
OREGON

 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi Jeff and all,


Jeff,


"How did Cornelius attain this righteous position before meeting Peter?"



Your question brought to mind what Peter said to him before he was baptised with the Holy Spirit:


"Then Peter opened [i]his[/i] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."


- Acts 10:34-35(KJV)


Right on, but we must always remember this is all possible only because of the grace of God. Without His grace in our salvation we would all be despairingly doomed. It is all of grace. God does the work.

Ezekiel 36:26-27,
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


_________________
Adam

 2009/8/1 5:36Profile
yoadam
Member



Joined: 2009/2/10
Posts: 97
OREGON

 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Alive-to-God,
"Rather, God seeks a face-to-face relationship with man, and accepts the honest seeker Heb 11:6 who acknowledges Him?"

This brings to mind Acts 17:27 and John 12:21.

It doesn't at all seem(to me) that those that came to Phillip seeking the Lord Jesus, did so because they hated him. I think that the Lord Jesus indicated that those that would persecute believers would do so because they do not know God, not because they do(John 15:21), and that it was those that had seen Him and all the works that He did, that hated Him(John 15:24).

Wish you well,

Chris


Chris, Acts 17:27 is an excellent verse. God is not far off-- is this not the good news!??? And all men are commanded to Deut. 4:29 "29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul." Saint Augustine had it right, when he said in his Confessions, "Grant what Thou commandest and then command what Thou wilt." Commands do not imply ability. I love the way the puritan John Owen said it, "To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect."

Now what you see happening in John 12:21 looks to me like people are being drawn to the Father. ie. John 6:44 However, it is interesting that in the same chapter, Jesus also says in verse 37-41,

37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

These sayings of Jesus reminds me of the hard Biblical truth that not everybody is predestinated before the foundation of the world to salvation. Hence, God has a peculiar people whom He has chosen from among fallen humanity, these people are His elect.

Eph. 1:5-6,
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Eph. 1:11,
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Rom. 8:28-30,
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom. 9:11-13,
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Rom. 9:14-18,
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Rom. 9:19-23,
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Rom. 11:5,
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom. 11:7-8,
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

2TI 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

1TH 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:4,
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Puritans had it right. Please read the Wesminster Confession of Faith.

[b]Chapter III
Of God's Eternal Decree

I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3][/b]

Scripture Proofs:
[1] EPH 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will. ROM 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! HEB 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath. ROM 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

[2] JAM 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 1JO 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

[3] ACT 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain. MAT 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. ACT 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. JOH 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. PRO 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the Lord.

[b]II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions;[4] yet has He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.[5][/b]

Scripture Proofs:
[4] ACT 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 1SA 23:11 Will the men of Keilah deliver me up into his hand? will Saul come down, as thy servant hath heard? O Lord God of Israel, I beseech thee, tell thy servant. And the Lord said, He will come down. 12 Then said David, Will the men of Keilah deliver me and my men into the hand of Saul? And the Lord said, They will deliver thee up. MAT 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

[5] ROM 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

[b]III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.[7][/b]

Scripture Proofs:
[6] 1TI 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. MAT 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

[7] ROM 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory. EPH 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. PRO 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

[b]IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.[8][/b]

Scripture Proofs:
[8] 2TI 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. JOH 13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

[b]V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory,[9] out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto;[10] and all to the praise of His glorious grace.[11][/b]

Scripture Proofs:
[9] EPH 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own wilL. ROM 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 2TI 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. 1TH 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus ChrisT.

[b]VI. As God has appointed the elect unto glory, so has He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto.[12] Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,[13] are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified,[14] and kept by His power, through faith, unto salvation.[15] Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.[16][/b]

Scripture Proofs:
[10] ROM 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. EPH 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself.

[11]EPH. 1:6,12.

[12] 1PE 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. EPH 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 2TH 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

[13] 1TH 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. TIT 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

[14] ROM 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. EPH 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. 2TH 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

[15] 1PE 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[16] JOH 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. ROM 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. JOH 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. 1JO 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

[b]VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extends or withholds mercy, as He pleases, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice.[17][/b]

Scripture Proofs:
[17] MAT 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. ROM 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction. 2TI 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. JUD 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 1PE 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

[b]VIII. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,[18] that men, attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.[19] So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God;[20] and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the Gospel.[21][/b]

Scripture Proofs:
[18] ROM 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! DEU 29:29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

[19] 2PE 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

[20] EPH 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. ROM 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

[21] ROM 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 2PE 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. ROM 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. LUK 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.


_________________
Adam

 2009/8/1 5:54Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4788


 Re:

Matthew Henry wrote:

Quote:
"Doubtless Cornelius had true faith in God's word,



This is true for Peter testifies that Cornelius had already heard the word of God...

36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all— 37 that word you know,...

Look again to verse 37..."that word you know,"...

Cornelius was already clean, was already enabled by God to do works of righteousness. For we know that Scripture says...

Romans 8:
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So based on the testimony of Scripture...Cornelius was already enabled by the Holy Spirit to know how to do the works of righteousness.

All that is needed is that one hear and do the word of God. God speaks to all that turn and obey His word. God promises that He will pour out His Spirit on those who do so...

Proverbs 1:


[i]23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you. [/i]

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2009/8/1 8:26Profile









 Re: Cornelius, total depravity, works, a questions?...


Hi tjservant, ChrisJD and all,

Thanks for your replies. I do understand that theology is a human attempt to codify truth from scripture, but imho, it falls short in several directions, and can actually lead one to [i][b]miss[/i][/b] truth from God's revelation of Himself through His written word.

To Jeff,

Quote:
According to Scripture Cornelius was righteous because God only hears the prayers of the righteous.

I would respectfully suggest, that the testimony of the men who fetched Peter, gives more of an explanation of God's attribution of righteousness to Cornelius. He appears to have been a '[u]do[/u]er' of the word, as far as he understood righteousness and justice. He was not unique amongst Gentiles, either. (Luke 7:4, 5, 6, 7, 8.)

22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, [u]and one that feareth God[/u], and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Psa 111:10, Prov 9:10, John 10:16.

 2009/8/1 9:14
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone,

Alive-to-God, thank you also.


"I do understand that theology is a human attempt to codify truth from scripture, but imho, it falls short in several directions, and can actually lead one to miss truth from God's revelation of Himself through His written word."



I feel much the same way. One of the passages I thought of in meditating on this topic is from Psalm 12 where David asks for God's help because he says, [i]for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.[/i]



I noticed today that this is the same place where it says


"The words of the LORD [i]are[/i] pure words: [i]as[/i] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."


- Psalm 12:6(KJV)





Thanks again!


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/8/1 9:33Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again everyone,

Jeff and Alive-to-God, a few more things came to mind as I thought about what you wrote more tonight and I wanted to share them with you.


First, Alive-to-God,


"He appears to have been a 'doer' of the word, as far as he understood righteousness and justice."

What came to mind was what the Lord Jesus said in John 7:17 and what Peter said in Acts 5:32.





"He was not unique amongst Gentiles, either. (Luke 7:4, 5, 6, 7, 8.)"



What also came to mind was Mat 12:41-42 and Luke 10:30-36.



Jeff,


"All that is needed is that one hear and do the word of God."



I thought also of Naaman(2Kings 5:10-14), and what Paul wrote in Romans 10:13-14.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/8/1 23:23Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again all,

I appologise for the multiple posts here.

I was wondering if I could share a brief story with you all?



I was walking around downtown earlier this evening and was passing through a crowded shopping area. At one point along the street there are some benches where sometimes people that are homeless sit. Tonight as I passed by I noticed one man sitting on a bench in front of me and there was a man lying on the ground in front of another.

I looked down as I passed by and saw that he was mostly face down, lying on the ground. I continued to look at him as I went by and was checking the time on my phone and didn't really think too much of it. Besides, I was down there to walk and pray.


And then I suddenly caught myself and asked 'what are you doing!?'

Its not too uncommon to see people lying on benchs or even on the ground and maybe I've become numb to seeing that and I suppose too that I saw how everyone else was just walking by and even felt a bit self-conscous of stopping to check on him, thinking that he was probably just passed out from drugs or alchol.


So anyway, as I kept thinking and began to feel like the priest and the levite from Luke 10, and as I walked along I noticed an older woman on the phone and I suspected that she might be calling someone about the man as she was looking that way. Finally after walking on some more I turned back and went up to the woman on the phone. I asked her if she was calling about the man and she was and I offered to go back and check on him.

After asking him some questions and not understanding anything he said, he managed to ask me clear enough to call an ambulance.



The woman said they were on the way.


Among all the people there, she did a good thing, the right thing.


As I walked on I could hear the Ambulance coming in the distance. They were on their way to do a good thing, that was their duty to do.



As for me, I thought that I need to examine the tenderness of my heart to the needs of those around me.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/8/1 23:58Profile





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