SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : God and state seperate? No way!

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

thingsabove said:

"I'll add this. The march has been on to remove references to God from public square and Government. The Atheists have been leading the charge for many years. Christians who have a fuzzy understanding about this have added to the continuing success of the Atheist agenda."

"So again, there is a seperation of the State from the Church but not a seperation of God from the State."

I agree that God, as it pertains to our Founding Father's is part of the basic principles of this nation. But I also believe that God in name only won't tackle the many ills of a society. Government entities throughout all history have failed to glorify God. Even Constantine's attempt to mesh both was fraught with stumblings and disingenuous power grabs of religiousity.

My opinion is that many people get 'separation' and 'segragation' confused. We are to be in the world but not of the world. Segragation is physical and separation spiritual. The problem lies in the demand of the church to insinuate itself into gov't affairs only to fail in separating itself spiritually. There seems to be no separation of church and state when it comes to the mainstream church looking just like the world in a power grab of influence. My observation is that when the church and state sleep in the same bed, ultimately it is the church who changes to the way of the state. So who is influencing who?

Where is Christ in the Constitution? We can't have a Christian nation without Christ so why stop short?? Christ is constantly rejected out of our own fear of rejection in my opinion. And with this rejection comes a lack of influence. God forbid!! Even the modern day creationists, who spend countless hours debating evolution to get their theology into our public schools, can't even muster up the courage to mention Christ. Why? Because they know it will be a losing battle to demand He be taught in our schools. In doing so they have let the world dictate the debate in determining the creation of the world. They debate in their intellect to craft a backdoor 'Christless' theology that only attempts to debunk evolution rather than preaching a Savior. It is Christ that is the reason why we all know evolution is bunk. Yet we leave Him to the side in order to punch a square peg of creationism into the round hole of a lost world that will never understand creationism without Him. Without Christ there is no power... apart from Him we can do nothing (although God's patience in His perfect plan allows us to 'think' we are doing something on His behalf).

I often wonder why God has let the Atheists have so much influence. We obviously outnumber them in the public arena so why do so few have so much clout? Could it be because the church is caught up in doing things its way by power grabbing to the point of hypocrisy for all to see??? I don't know the exclusive answer but I'm a little tired of so called christian politicians and leaders of mega churches speaking for me as a christian.

Biblical history suggests to me that it is the church who is judged first. Had Israel not compromised itself to worldly ways, they may have had more influence on the rulers of the world... rulers who were, in many ways, sent as a judgment upon them.

Perhaps Atheist power and influence is a judgment against a mainstream American church that wants wealth, power, and carte blanc on sin. Perhaps the removal of biblical precepts from gov't property is God's way of telling us that our hypocrisy can only go so far. Or maybe the Alabama State Supreme court isn't worthy of the Ten Commandments. Regardless, our battle is not with flesh and blood. But we would rather flex our influential muscles in power and influence than spend time with The One who can really make a difference.

{edit} We don't need a doubleminded church, we need a church who will stop screaming 'foul!' and start living like the Bible demands. We need a church who won't complain about the cross it must bear and one that's more willing to enter a prayer closet than a protest march. We must do things His way or no amount 'God' on a piece of paper will matter.

 2009/7/18 23:24
chapel
Member



Joined: 2009/4/24
Posts: 280


 Re:

ccrider wrote:

Quote:
{edit} We don't need a doubleminded church, we need a church who will stop screaming 'foul!' and start living like the Bible demands. We need a church who won't complain about the cross it must bear and one that's more willing to enter a prayer closet than a protest march. We must do things His way or no amount 'God' on a piece of paper will matter.




Amen!


_________________
Lee Chapel

 2009/7/19 2:49Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7463
Mississippi

 Re:

thingsabove,

I reread your post and I want to admit here that I jumped the gun on this one. And for this I apologize. When I saw the title, I immediately perceived it to mean "church and state". And this is what I really fear given the history of times past.

It makes Christians feel good when public officials acknowledge God in the course of business. But how does God see this? Makes me wonder if in reality He is not mocked because so many of these folks use "God" to get votes and favor with the people they govern. Missippi politicians are very good (or is it bad?) about doing this. It was in a MS newspaper the other day about our former representative Pickering who is divorcing his wife - he got involved in adultery..While serving as rep, he was involved with Promise Keepers, pro-lifer, pro-family (he has five boys). He was a missionary to Hungry before he married. Many [former] Missippi governors are conservative politically, say the right things but their private lives are in shambles.

So, what good does it do for politicians to talk about God in the public square when they are the days' poster boy for hypocrisy?

I know we hate to see God maligned in the public, but do you not think the reason this happens is largely because of the hypocrisy of so-called Christians? Do you not think this is the greater problem?

So the ACLU is succeeding in erasing references to God from the public square...tragic, I admit.

I get emails raising this alarm "and to help stop the current onslaught of this travesty, please send money to this organization and we will stop it". And they ain't stopped anything yet - the only thing they will accomplish is pad their bank account by preying on the fears of the American Christian. They have promised to stop abortion upon demand and it ain't happened yet.

You want to know why I do not think this problem [of abortion] will be solved politically? Because it is at its heart a spiritual problem. Folks have spurned God, are not repentant. Religious folks are the best customers for AB clinics. Abortionist Tiller was in church when he was murdered. There is a similar situation in an Al city where the local abortionist is very popular in the city, in civic affairs as well as church. How can these folks be there regularly and be comfortable? The problem lies with modern churches and the solution also lies there - the solution for whatever ails America, except I think the modern, popular church has gone so far I am not sure it can be redeemed anymore. So, that leaves you and me, and you, and you, and you...

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/7/19 6:40Profile









 Re:

I agree that we the church are the light to America that she might see again.

For all of us here I add that yes, God chastises those He loves. He loves America as also He loves the whole world. There are special blessings for nations who recognize Him as God and the giver of life.

Above all, His Mercy is what has and will continue to sustain our nation. He says I desire mercy not judgement. So I believe He still has much mercy to extend to America. I also believe there are many righteous in America calling out to Him!

 2009/7/19 12:07









 Re:

thingabove wrote:
"I agree that we the church are the light to America that she might see again.

For all of us here I add that yes, God chastises those He loves. He loves America as also He loves the whole world. There are special blessings for nations who recognize Him as God and the giver of life.

Above all, His Mercy is what has and will continue to sustain our nation. He says I desire mercy not judgement. So I believe He still has much mercy to extend to America. I also believe there are many righteous in America calling out to Him!"





Well said thingsabove, you summed it up right there!! I had to put your post in its entirety. Thanks for this.

cc-



 2009/7/19 19:25









 Re:

"There are special blessings for nations who recognize Him as God and the giver of life." thingsabove

I have to qualify though that in order to receive from Him we must also live as He commands in His spirit. There is a difference between receiving a blessing and having His sovereign mercy sustain us until His perfect will is fulfilled.

Recognition alone is like someone declaring they have Christ but live as if they never knew Him.
This was Israel's problem and it is our problem in many ways as well.

May He bless and tarry for the sake of the remnant who do cry out on behalf of those who think recognition is a saving grace in and of itself.

cc-

 2009/7/19 20:01









 Re:

This compilation article form www.wallbuilders.com is another very powrefull testimony!!! Enjoy.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=8755#FN123

 2009/7/22 11:19









 Re:

I find it curious that such men who were so passionate about Christ left His name out of the Constitution. Why? I won't question motive but it's a simple and obvious observation. I also found this on the site:

....................................
Voting Guides
***WallBuilders has released a 2008 Presidential Voters’ Guide, which looks at the stance of the Presidential candidates from both parties on fourteen key issues. Read and download the Voters' Guide here.

The pro-family organizations listed below provide voters resources for most states. Click on the organizations’ links to get more information.

American Family Association: Voter Resources
Catholic Answers: Voter's Guide
Christian Coalition: Voter Guides
Eagle Forum: Election Central
Family Research Council: Voting Records
Focus on the Family: CitizenLink
National Right to Life Committee: Voting Records
Pew Forum: Religion and Politics 08
..........................................

And if you look at this link, and others, you'll find obvious leanings:

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/misc/CivilRightsPlatforms.pdf

...............................................

This site is way too close to the political fray for me and I don't find it credibly impartial. The AFA and Christian Coalition have been found to do some underhanded and, in my view, un-Christlike things in the past to manipulate elections as well as fundraising ventures that smack of hypocrisy. This looks to me like a typical activist website that blames everyone but the church for our own moral failure. Ted Haggard, Ralph Reed, Pat Robertson (who supported a candidate that endorsed abortion) were among these kinds of organizations (and I pray they all repent and come back in humble sincerity.. which includes Rick Warren's and some of his stances and motives). I also have in the past visited prophetic websites that have similar type info on them... And these are prophets that I consider to be false, so there is a wide spectrum of church interaction and likemindedness in this area. As much as moral liberism is a problem, the credibility of these org's are questionable at best and I don't think what they represent is the right approach to deliver a nation. The site seems to be inclusive of basically any denomination as long as a specific agenda is served. As I had said before, you can blame Atheists or whoever else for the moral decline of a nation or you can examine yourself as a church and understand that a wayward church has no power.

The Bible speaks of falling away from faith, from sound doctrine, having itching ears. To those who have and ear, the mainstream American church is all too known for it's soft Gospel these days and it won't be delivered by dead forefathers or a branch of a church that emphasizes on moralistic activism. I don't sense the Spirit of God at all in these kinds of sites. I'll stick to the Bible, my prayer closet, and my relationship with Christ as it pertains to my decrease and His increase as my foundation for God's will.

You can have facts and still not have truth. You can have morality and still lack the righteousness of God in Christ.

Carter Conlon touches on some of this activity in this sermon.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1724&commentView=itemComments

 2009/7/22 12:55









 Re:

The constitution is a legal document for the conducting of the State and Federal Government.
The Declaration of independence already mentioned God four times. Also the "Bill of Rights" amended to the constitution secure religious liberties. The purpose of the constition was to provide legal framework for the State and fed Gov to operate. It was not meant as a document to establish a theocracy.

 2009/7/22 14:14
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7463
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
The kingdom of the world and the kingdom of God separate? In which way?



Both are ministers of God. But each has a different ministry.

The church is to call people to repentance.

The civil authorities, according to Romans 13:3,4, are to be a terror to evil and a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Nowhere do we find the church commissioned to carry out the wrath of God upon the ungodly, although we may [i]feel[/i] like it sometimes.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/7/22 14:37Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy