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rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 The book Pagan Christianity(Don't be Duped}

This book seems to be dangerous to a real revival that is so needed in our day. Reading the titles to the chapters and several reviews positive and negative, I don’t feel led to buy this book. Truth should be told in the right spirit without any mixture of error leading the listeners to an understanding that will reveal the living Christ with an end to the fullness of God.

The problems with most gatherings today are that the people are not getting the true gospel message. You can also have multitude of house churches that fall short of the New Testament pattern of worship lacking the presence of the Holy Spirit in all his fullness.

Jesus gave gifts unto men for the equipping of the saints as well as the body ministry to one another.

People who are walking away from local church buildings and becoming leaders of house churches will also be held just as responsible as Pastors of congregations. What ever measure you use to judge others will be measured right back to you.

You call yourself a Christian and start telling someone else how to live and serve God you will be held accountable for those people you influence.

The two individuals who wrote “pagan christianity” will answer to God for how they represented the church that Jesus suffered for.

Blessings to all!

 2009/7/13 23:48Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re: The book Pagan Christianity

rbanks wrote:

Quote:
Reading the titles to the chapters and several reviews positive and negative, I don’t feel led to buy this book.



Great. After I [u]read[/u] this book and formulated [u]my own[/u] opinion, I feel led to suggest for others to buy this book.8-)

Granted, if someone does not wish to be challenged by what the writers reveal about popular "pagan" ;-) christian traditions...don't buy this book.


Quote:
The problems with most gatherings today are that the people are not getting the true gospel message.




Very true.


Quote:
You can also have multitude of house churches that fall short of the New Testament pattern of worship lacking the presence of the Holy Spirit in all his fullness.




"Multitude"? I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you have some first hand examples of this. If so, please site some examples and sources of Christian House Churches that fall short.


Quote:
The two individuals who wrote “pagan christianity” will answer to God for how they represented the church that Jesus suffered for.

Blessings to all!




I'm sorry brother, but Jesus did not come and die on the cross so that Christians could have church in a building (church) made by man. Ask our brothers and sisters in China, or Pakistan, or Iran, or N. Korea, or Romania, etc... most of these brothers and sisters would LOVE to hold church in a traditional setting, but are forced not to. Are they going to have to answer to the Lord for how they lead His people [u]because[/u] they met outside of a traditional church building?

As for these brothers answering to the Lord for representing Christ, praise God! All who lead a House Church, traditional church, etc... will need to answer for how they lead Gods people. If you do not lead Gods people, then you will have to answer for how you lead your family, chirldren, co-workers, etc...

We are all accountable for our decisions. Lets honor the Lord above any other, albiet the traditional church, or an untraditional church. HC may not be for everyone, and that is ok, but traditional church may not be for everyone either. Lets glorify the Lord regardless. :-)


_________________
Christiaan

 2009/7/14 0:48Profile









 Re:

I read Pagan Christianity and I can't recall anything I seriously disagreed with in it. There may have been a bit of opinion thrown in, but I'd have to say that they were really speaking the mind of Christ in much of this book.

 2009/7/14 1:26
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re:


I think I have heard of the book, but I don't know who the authors are.

But with the oxymoronic title that it has, I think it won't be a book that I would read.

 2009/7/14 2:00Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

Miccah wrote:
rbanks wrote:

Quote:
Reading the titles to the chapters and several reviews positive and negative, I don’t feel led to buy this book.



Great. After I [u]read[/u] this book and formulated [u]my own[/u] opinion, I feel led to suggest for others to buy this book.8-)

Granted, if someone does not wish to be challenged by what the writers reveal about popular "pagan" ;-) christian traditions...don't buy this book.


Quote:
The problems with most gatherings today are that the people are not getting the true gospel message.




Very true.


Quote:
You can also have multitude of house churches that fall short of the New Testament pattern of worship lacking the presence of the Holy Spirit in all his fullness.




"Multitude"? I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you have some first hand examples of this. If so, please site some examples and sources of Christian House Churches that fall short.


Quote:
The two individuals who wrote “pagan christianity” will answer to God for how they represented the church that Jesus suffered for.

Blessings to all!




I'm sorry brother, but Jesus did not come and die on the cross so that Christians could have church in a building (church) made by man. Ask our brothers and sisters in China, or Pakistan, or Iran, or N. Korea, or Romania, etc... most of these brothers and sisters would LOVE to hold church in a traditional setting, but are forced not to. Are they going to have to answer to the Lord for how they lead His people [u]because[/u] they met outside of a traditional church building?

As for these brothers answering to the Lord for representing Christ, praise God! All who lead a House Church, traditional church, etc... will need to answer for how they lead Gods people. If you do not lead Gods people, then you will have to answer for how you lead your family, chirldren, co-workers, etc...

We are all accountable for our decisions. Lets honor the Lord above any other, albiet the traditional church, or an untraditional church. HC may not be for everyone, and that is ok, but traditional church may not be for everyone either. Lets glorify the Lord regardless. :-)




I still stand by every word in my original post even at the point of being misunderstood. You see Jesus was often misunderstood and accused by those who did not comprehend where he was coming from.

The difference in the words of Jesus and the words in this book is that Jesus was more clear with the words of the kingdom and did not mix his words with those that were ungodly to possibly mislead someone or to hurt someone who was actually for Him and not against Him.

Jesus would never criticize by using words like this book. We shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water.

The part where I said that "you can have multitude of house churches", I was meaning that it is possible if they are not led by the Holy Spirit.

I believe their are more true christians in the underground church in China then probably anywhere but you also stated that "they would love to hold church in a traditional setting but are forced not to" by this I am to assume that this is not wrong to desire this.

We all will have to answer for our actions and I still believe we need to be careful with the words and message we are striving to get across.

Blessings to you!

 2009/7/14 6:52Profile
bible1985
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 354


 Re:

Is this about christianity we have today is the same of paganism, please we know this not to be true but a lie. Biblical christianity did not steal from paganism.

 2009/7/14 12:31Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re: Pagan Christianity

I enjoyed the book...thought it was one the best books I have read. I don't feel that Frank is telling people to leave there churches, he is actually advocating if you like what you are used too, then by all means stick with it. Bible1985, I would suggest that you read the book before assuming what it is about. Pagan in general is not a negative term it just refers to something that has origins outside of a biblical meaning.

This book only lays out a historical context of church traditions, why we have what we have. Frank has plenty of notes that confirm the sources he compiled the information from. Its actually two books in one.

Most christians do not like the idea of people leaving there "churches" for something different other than what is currently out there. if someone decides to meet in a home they are classified as a heretic. Most Christians have to go "church" because that is there identity, they have to perform. A spirit of religion tells us that we need to get up on Sunday and go. What would happen if we came under persecution and we had to abandon our buildings and meet privately?

 2009/7/14 13:01Profile









 Re:

Oh boy... opinions on a book by two people who haven't even read it. You must be kidding me.

You know the old saying "dont judge a book by it's cover"? ... well dont judge a book unless you've read it either.

The whole point of the book is that Biblical Christianity did not come from paganism. But [i]many[/i] of what we in America view as Biblical practices actually have no basis in scripture at all... and was in fact borrowed from paganism.

What many think is Biblical... actually isnt Biblical. Many think it is Biblical because they are ignorant and have been fed a bunch of junk without ever once questioning it, or going to scripture to find out for themselves. Instead, like sheep, they all get in line and say "Baaaaa...!"

This book, in my opinion, DOES lend itself toward true revival because in my life it helped me identify things that were blocking me from experiencing real peace and freedom in Jesus. I was too busy trying to be good little Christian boy by living up to what everyone told me I needed to do and be to be good little Christian boy... and accepting that what was being done in church was Biblical and made me a good little Christian boy.

Once I broke free from all of that thru many different things... including this book "Pagan Christianity"... the Holy Spirit grew me up from good little Christian boy to a true godly man. (even tho I still stumble)

It is complete foolishness to come onto this forum and bash a book you've never read. Especially a book that has been read and recommended by many many people on this forum. I consider most folks around here to be serious in their faith and commitment to God. If someone on this forum who is of good reputation recommends a book... I pay attention.

But I sure don't think I've ever come here and bashed a Christian book which has been recommended by many here... without reading it.

Krispy

 2009/7/14 13:56









 Re:

I have not read Pagan Christianity but I did find Dean Taylor's article in a recent Remnant to be quite interesting.

http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2009/2Q/theremnant-2009-2Q-pagan.a5w

 2009/7/14 13:59
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:

Roniya wrote:
I have not read Pagan Christianity but I did find Dean Taylor's article in a recent Remnant to be quite interesting.

http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2009/2Q/theremnant-2009-2Q-pagan.a5w





I just read the entire article. It too bad that the writer used another person's statements about the Bible and applied that to Frank Viola/George Barna... as is that is what they were saying. That is deceptive and is bearing false witness.

Also, there was a lot of assumptions made about Barna/Viola and their research. Though I can see some of the writers points and will research those points he is trying to make, I would always suggest we steer clear of adding bits and pieces to what people are saying. Again, this is deceptive in my eyes.

Lots of strawman arguements. But thank you for the link. I love seeing different views on subjects I am passionate about. I will pray on it.

Blessings :-)


_________________
Christiaan

 2009/7/14 14:23Profile





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