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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Contemplative Spirituality & The New Conscience????

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 Re: The spirit agrees with the WORD!

Yes Waltern: Newt Gingrich and Senator Brownback or a couple of very famous former politicians who have "came home" to the Roman Mass.


Catholicism has become the institution that defines their morality, and it also allows an element of POWER and security. Being born again or adhering to Scripture is now meaningless. They now have tangibility intermingled with faith, and their best life now that attributes to their political aspirations. It's an "IN" thing to do right now.


As far as looking for a fellowship, it's a waste land out there. If you do find a scriptural church, I ask is that alone enough to justify attendance? Is the witness of the Spirit in fruit also present?, are the weak and needy honored as much as the leaders?, and are their some fruits in tandem with new believers? just some thinking. I personally like home fellowships; they seem more real.


But your right: If you don't submit to scripture without compromise, What have you got?


Apostasy somewhere in the middle.


My best thoughts for your journey; brothertom

 2009/7/7 13:01
Axe1338
Member



Joined: 2005/10/31
Posts: 120
Miami, Fl

 Re:

Brother Neil,

I understand what you are saying but heresy must be exposed; we are to defend the faith against all that opposes biblical truth, in Christianity and outside of it. Emergent church theology or thought is heresy as is WOF, domionism, and New Apostolic Reform. Deception cannot be deception unless it has elements of truth, these teachings have some truth but preach & teach another gospel.

 2009/7/7 15:34Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

"The church is dead" These are the words I heard the Holy Spirit say to me. He did not use the words

Quote:
'bad', 'lukewarm' 'apostate'



He used the the Words "DEAD"


_________________
Colin Murray

 2009/7/7 17:45Profile
poet
Member



Joined: 2007/2/16
Posts: 231
Longview WA

 Re:

"Neither when we have chosen our way can we keep company with those who go the other way. There must come with the decision for truth a corresponding protest against error." - Charles Haddon Spurgeon


_________________
howard

 2009/7/7 18:12Profile









 Re: poet: SPURGEON

"Neither when we have chosen our way can we keep company with those who go the other way. There must come with the decision for truth a corresponding protest against error." - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Amen! Otherwise we are not separate, nor holy, for a little leaven leavens the whole lump. We heed the admonition to "Come out from among them, and be ye separate!", otherwise, being one bread with corruption, we perish. Isn't it a little beyond our grasp of theology, to grasp the truth that God also judges CHURCHES, by removing their candlesticks, as he does the individual? But he surely does.


All of us have an example of a once mighty spirit filled church that shook the world, and a generation or two later, was but a dead shell.


I think of the glorious Methodist brothers,the Wesleys, Whitefield and their companions. It seemed that no stone was left unturned in all of America that had not heard their message of repentance, holiness, and submission to the only Savior Jesus!


The last time I checked, the United Methodist church here, at the edge of the county line, was Pastored by a Lesbian and her lover. No gospel message at all...zero.



John Wesley could not have believed it, and to be honest, neither could I.


A.W. Tozer contended that our battle was not a battle for the Faith, but a battle for the PURITY of the Faith.


Xylon B, the cyanide capsule that the Nazi's used to assassinate multitudes of innocent Jews was eventual refined to just a few pellets. It was all relatively sanitary and orderly, but mixed with the air we breathe, nevertheless overwhelmingly toxic unto almost instant death. I see the many tentacles of the EMERGENT Church with some pellets in each of them.



Yes God is good, and the benefits of an abundant life of faith quite desirable and evident, but the other side of the Father is His SEVERITY. He will , and has, damned many a soul who did not fear Him, and presumptuously transgressed his goodness. Leaven in the "emergents" has intentions, and that is to defile you, and steal your faith, along with your crown. This is why it all must be opposed, and spoken out against, that is not in obedience to Scripture, or the holy spirit Who agrees with "IT IS WRITTEN!

 2009/7/7 19:05









 Re: Brother Colin

Quote:
"The church is dead" These are the words I heard the Holy Spirit say to me. He did not use the words

'bad', 'lukewarm' 'apostate'

He used the the Words "DEAD"




gently I ask, are you sure it was the Holy Ghost Whom said that to you?

Forgive me, but such a statement from God the Holy Ghost would make Him out to be a liar.

the 16th chapter of Matthew's Gospel, verses 13 to 20 Mt.16-13-20 Peter's confession that Jesus is Messiah, Son of the living God is the "Rock" that the church (congregation) is built on, and Jesus said, [b][color=CC0000]"the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."[/color][/b]

the church is not dead, and God the Holy Ghost did not tell you that, dont be foolish. You live in Scotland, I live in the US, Bibles are readily available, there are many buildings to rent, there are many avenues of discourse we may avail ourselves of, to proclaim the Living Gospel , without penalty of death, or censure or jail. Kinko's abound, you can publish your own tracts. We have two knees, there's nothing holding us back from falling on them, and asking God to bare His Mighty Arm once again, but we waste time with our own back biting, divisions, diviseness, fleshliness, unprofitability (of which I will readily "cop to", but Praise Him, Jesus has ahold of me!)

reflect on this for a second, what is it about us, that would make ANYBODY envious of us? That we have been given so great a Salvation?, I speak of those poor souls that do not know Jesus. Could they REALLY look at us, and say, "look how they love one another"?

and that Love does not come cheap and easy, because when Jesus comes to live in us, we begin to be refined, and we seek the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, His Love, becomes our love, and That is not dead, so the Church is not dead, we just have to start obeying Jesus, and i believe ground zero of that endeavour is to read and re-read the High Priestly Prayer of Jesus in John 17, that precious bit of Scripture, the longest recorded prayer of Jesus, that is the "spine" of our Faith. Jesus is up There right now, making intercession on all our lifes, Praise His Name!!!

 2009/7/7 20:03









 Re:




To Neil:


How about the True Church that exists in America, that is the remnant? It is alive and well, like it has been from the beginning. The rest of the "Church" in America, which is the majority, is dead. But guess what? It has always been dead, it has always been filled with goats, only now all those with eyes to see, and ears to hear, can see and hear the difference between the two "Churches", between the true Church of the Sheep, and the false Church of the Goats.

(Matthew 7:13-19)
13. Enter ye in at the strait gate:[b] for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:[/b][b][color=990000] 14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. [/color][/b]15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.19.Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire
20.Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

Natan4Jesus wrote:
Quote:
"The church is dead" These are the words I heard the Holy Spirit say to me. He did not use the words

'bad', 'lukewarm' 'apostate'

He used the the Words "DEAD"




gently I ask, are you sure it was the Holy Ghost Whom said that to you?

Forgive me, but such a statement from God the Holy Ghost would make Him out to be a liar.

the 16th chapter of Matthew's Gospel, verses 13 to 20 Mt.16-13-20 Peter's confession that Jesus is Messiah, Son of the living God is the "Rock" that the church (congregation) is built on, and Jesus said, [b][color=CC0000]"the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."[/color][/b]

the church is not dead, and God the Holy Ghost did not tell you that, dont be foolish. You live in Scotland, I live in the US, Bibles are readily available, there are many buildings to rent, there are many avenues of discourse we may avail ourselves of, to proclaim the Living Gospel , without penalty of death, or censure or jail. Kinko's abound, you can publish your own tracts. We have two knees, there's nothing holding us back from falling on them, and asking God to bare His Mighty Arm once again, but we waste time with our own back biting, divisions, diviseness, fleshliness, unprofitability (of which I will readily "cop to", but Praise Him, Jesus has ahold of me!)

reflect on this for a second, what is it about us, that would make ANYBODY envious of us? That we have been given so great a Salvation?, I speak of those poor souls that do not know Jesus. Could they REALLY look at us, and say, "look how they love one another"?

and that Love does not come cheap and easy, because when Jesus comes to live in us, we begin to be refined, and we seek the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, His Love, becomes our love, and That is not dead, so the Church is not dead, we just have to start obeying Jesus, and i believe ground zero of that endeavour is to read and re-read the High Priestly Prayer of Jesus in John 17, that precious bit of Scripture, the longest recorded prayer of Jesus, that is the "spine" of our Faith. Jesus is up There right now, making intercession on all our lifes, Praise His Name!!!

 2009/7/7 21:22
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Neil

You said this

Quote:
Forgive me, but such a statement from God the Holy Ghost would make Him out to be a liar.



So you think there is no written verse where Jesus says to a church your dead.

Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Scripture does tell us that a church can be dead. So what caused his death if we look at

Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Having not defiled there garments means they were pure without sin. Which means the rest of Sardis was dead becasue of there unclean sinful lives. Dead in Sin.

But there are always some that see the truth of the matter and keep themselves pure. In Elijahs day God said that there was 7000 that did not bow the knee to Baal.

Quote:
Bibles are readily available, there are many buildings to rent, there are many avenues of discourse we may avail ourselves of, to proclaim the Living Gospel



Oh Neil you miss the big picture, the problem is [b]sin[/b] not the lack of resources. Sin has crept in and is now operating in the church causing deception in ways that never been seen before in the church.

Scripture tells us that there is going to be a great falling away 2 Thess 2:1-3, 1Timothy 4:1, Amos 8:11

Basically the Church will denounce God's truth and turn to a false doctrines and will institute a total abdication of it's beliefs. It will be an abandonment of the Word unlike anything that has ever happened in the history of Christianity

"The church is dead, know get up!" You see my friend you told me to get on my knees but the Holy Spirit told me to get up.

God will speak in the middle of death, "Lazsarus come forth" and there are thousands of people around the world today that are hearing the voice of God realising the time we are living in and what is going on and are preparing themselves for what God wants to do with there lives.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2009/7/8 10:04Profile









 Forgive me then Brother Colin

I might have misconstrued what you wrote, which is not uncommon on such a discussion platform. Believe me, I dont mean to be argumentative, or contentious. I had asked questions of another poster on this thread, who must have assumed I was baiting him, which is not the truth.

Yes, Jesus did say the church in Sardis is dead, but it was "a" church, I read you write "the" church as in all churches. Is that incorrect?

When I talk about "resources" being readily available, I am not unaware of the "big picture", nor am I unaware of the problem of sin, but the way I read the Word, there is no such thing as "Christian Perfectionism". There is the Blood of Christ, which is completely and wholly sufficient for cleansing. There is sanctification, which is an ongoing maturing process. There is the Baptism in the Holy Ghost, which in its final analysis is just a greater revelation of Jesus, so as to empower His flock, to lead a life of holiness. But "perfection" in a daily walk? No.

the sin of the those who follow Jesus is our lack of unity, our lack of love, agape love, love without condition. How can we ever expect to love the broken unconditionally, when we can't even love each other, unconditionally?

Men and women, it seems to me, just relish the opportunity to argue over the letter of the "law", rather than embrace the Spirit of the Word. Just on this very forum, so many threads, so much bandwidth expended over whether Judas is in hell, or whether this ministry, or that minister is backslidden or apostate, etc. So much bandwidth now devoted to terminology 'emerging' that I dont think the writers really have a full grasp of what it all means.

you also wrote:

Quote:
Sin has crept in and is now operating in the church causing deception in ways that never been seen before in the church.



oh come now, have you forgotten Constantine? and how could we ever forget that red scarlet whore, the roman institution? and its sin? its superstition? its idolatry? I won't even insult God by terming it the "roman catholic church", as many have on this forum, even to the point of honor by capitalizing it, as they slam what they percieve as something gravely evil and sin-soaked decievers, the "emerging" church.....which can come in the form of some kids, renting a storefront, to pray, and worship the Saviour Jesus Christ. The concept, term, "emerging" is so loose and amphorous, its different in the sense that it might some followers of Jesus, young people actually getting together and saying, "no, we're tired of [b]"doing church"[/b] we want to [b]BE Church, which is the Body of Christ"[/b]

(admittedly, the "Emergent Church" is a different story altogther, and I have not the time nor leading to read of any of Brian MacLaren's stuff, I will neither support him or defend him, or the Emergent Church, which is wholly different from the loose terminology "emerging church")

the Church has always been "emerging" in its history, in the context of how a congregation reflects the rubric of the local believers. The Chinese "underground house church", can one define its ecclesiology? What about Shane Claiborne and the Simple Way out in the ghetto of North Philly? The Gospel is being preached there, and lives are brought into a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, read his book "The Irresistible Revolution", Shane's Full Gospel, there is no lie in him. He just doesnt "look" like what one would presume a north american pastor to look like, in fact in his occupation, he lists himself as "lover", as in "lover of Jesus", is that deception, or is it just that the established church in all its fleshly prejuidices, or presuppositions, feels threatened? Much like that red scarlet whore rome, that maintains an iron grip over so many souls held in bondage to its wicked adulteries and priestcraft.

or what about our very own brother Patrick Ersig, who I daresay doesnt look like a typical mid american pastor, yet preaches the Full Gospel in one of the most sin-soaked, dangerous spots in America, skid row Los Angeles. Is the ministry God entrusted him with, The Jonah Project, "emerging"? Patrick is more than able to answer that himself, but my judgement is that it is, and its a good Work, souls are being swept into the Kingdom, lives changed, Jesus preached, its just a bit different from a Baptist church in middle America, thats all. Is that to imply that the Jonah Project is "superior" to the mid America Baptist church?

not at all!

But I do look forward to going back to Los Angeles to my home congregation, coming alongside our new work, and yes, coming alongside my brother Patrick in whatever way I can.

I've written enough, after 31 July, my time, God willing, will be spent in endeavours more profitable to the Lord, and to His service. I dont mean that as an insult to anyone here, but we just keep going around and around with the same things, contentious things, and I'm weary of it.

Colin, I love you in the Lord, and my prayer is that Scotland once again be lit with the Fires of Revival, as your land gave us M'Cheyne, Bonar and Campbell, these were mighty men of God, may God give you such an annointing, in Jesus Name I pray, amen. neil

 2009/7/8 13:35
poet
Member



Joined: 2007/2/16
Posts: 231
Longview WA

 Re:

Quote: "the church is dead"
Think about this statement,
The whole church of Christ is dead?
not even one remnant left?
Not even one just sleeping or mostly dead but the whole church is Dead?
How about when the spirit speaks he might tell me that Im sleeping or dead, or the church im going to is dead, but if God isnt able to keep even a remnant for himself and declares the whole church dead then why are we contenting for the faith when were dead too and not able to discern anything?

Just a thought.
heres a link to a series I just got in the mail yesturday and I found it very eye opening concerning the Emergent Church and Contemplative prayer, Mystical new age practices slipping into the church..

[url=http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/eccd.html]contemplative emerging church[/url]

Just some thoughts and I pray God does and has saved a remnant for his glory, and if were truly all dead then Who would Christ be comming back for. He is the God of the living not of the Dead...


_________________
howard

 2009/7/9 0:12Profile





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