SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is Calvinism the Faith that was once delivered to the saints?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re: Is Calvinism the Faith that was once delivered to the saints?

Good morning Jimotheus,

I would say ,

NOT to look to Calvin s teaching at the first.


As the one here has said,(and I commend his answer on this subject)To be filled w/the Holy One and be lead by the Spirit.
He will lead you into all Truth.((John)

The Faith that was once delivered to the saints..
..would have to be `the one that Jesus taught the desiples ,and the faith that they taught
in the Bible.The Lord taught them
`Disiple:learner
He then sent them out to make other Disiples.
tat we might be taught by their origanal teaching.That we might be `learners..Disciples.

I would really like to say more ....maybe another time?
God blessyou as you look to Him,
Lovingly,
Elizabeth










 2009/7/11 11:09
yoadam
Member



Joined: 2009/2/10
Posts: 97
OREGON

 Re:

Quote:

ebeth wrote:
Good morning Jimotheus,

I would say ,

NOT to look to Calvin s teaching at the first.


As the one here has said,(and I commend his answer on this subject)To be filled w/the Holy One and be lead by the Spirit.
He will lead you into all Truth.((John)

The Faith that was once delivered to the saints..
..would have to be `the one that Jesus taught the desiples ,and the faith that they taught
in the Bible.The Lord taught them
`Disiple:learner
He then sent them out to make other Disiples.
tat we might be taught by their origanal teaching.That we might be `learners..Disciples.

I would really like to say more ....maybe another time?
God blessyou as you look to Him,
Lovingly,
Elizabeth


Hi. Firstly, Jimotheus has obviously already looked in to these things and made up his mind about them.

Secondly, Calvin was a gift from God to the church. Just like your pastor in Mississippi is to you. He's not inspired, of course; but neither is your pastor. But why limit yourself to only hearing from and reading men who are currently living? Is that not completely arrogant? Consider G.K. Chesterson's words, "Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to that arrogant oligarchy who merely happen to be walking around." Calvin held fast to the gospel when few did back in the 15th century. He even wrote a book (The Institutes of Christian Religion) explaining the basics of the protestant faith, so that he would, Lord willing, see a stop put to his fellow protestant frenchmen being burned alive at the stake. Calvin along with Luther was one among the few at the time who would make famous the doctrine of "sola scriptura" (Scripture Alone) which you are now basically taking for granted. Calvin is a good guy. No need to fear him. Oh and it was his 500th birthday yesterday. I guess anyone who the church is still talking about 500 years later is worth looking into... :-)

[b]"Those who think they have no traditions are the most enslaved by them."[/b]

Find out what your tradition is. Everybody approaches the truth from a certain point in time, with a certain background and understanding already. Now figure out what "interpretive glasses" you are wearing and judge them according to Scripture to see if they are not distorting the truth.

We should always be reforming!

Adam


_________________
Adam

 2009/7/11 11:34Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

“Article 9: Election Not Based on Foreseen Faith

This same election took place, not on the basis of foreseen faith, of the obedience of faith, of holiness, or of any other good quality and disposition, as though it were based on a prerequisite cause or condition in the person to be chosen, but rather for the purpose of faith, of the obedience of faith, of holiness, and so on. Accordingly, election is the source of each of the benefits of salvation. Faith, holiness, and the other saving gifts, and at last eternal life itself, flow forth from election as its fruits and effects. As the apostle says, He chose us (not because we were, but) so that we should be holy and blameless before him in love (Eph. 1:4).”
Quote-

It is amazing to me how people who have been enlightened so much in the truth of God are willing to so easily go beyond the scriptures. Right here is where he starts to greatly err. It is not the truth from the word of God in Calvinism that bothers me at all; it is the interpretation beyond the scriptures. The apostle Paul didn’t even take that liberty upon himself and Mr. John Calvin can’t even hold a candlestick next to the apostle Paul. Even the apostle Peter said that many wrestle to their own destruction over the writings of the apostle Paul because He had gained so much wisdom from God and it was very hard for many to understand. John Calvin never walked in the power of the Holy Spirit like the apostles, but many are willing to lay hold of his teachings that go beyond scripture as thought they are the very words of God. I fear God to much than to go beyond what the scriptures reveal and speak for God himself concerning predestination.

Blessings to you all!

 2009/7/11 16:09Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


yoadam wrote:

Quote:


Calvin is a good guy. No need to fear him. Oh and it was his 500th birthday yesterday. I guess anyone who the church is still talking about 500 years later is worth looking into... :-)




How about focusing that on Jesus, instead of a mortal man.

Regardless of your stance on Cal/Arm, we should never look to man for our beliefs, unless He is Jesus.


_________________
Christiaan

 2009/7/11 16:23Profile
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Brother yoadam,

Anymore, I try and stay out of theses types of threads because they normally cause more division then unity. However, I wanted to point somethings out.

Quote:
Arminianism is heresy.



That is a matter of opinion. Many godly people have not held to the "doctrines of grace" and still lead lives pleasing to the Lord.

Quote:
Call it "The Doctrines of Grace", "Calvinism", "Augustinianism"-- whatever, the truth is, it is Pauline.



Again, this is purely a matter of opinion. I know many people (myself included) that have only used the Bible to determine what's true on this issue and have come out either totally Arminian or leaning that way. When I began studying this topic, I was going to a baptist church where many people leaned toward Calvinism.

Also, I think you need to go back in history farther than the Canon of Dort, etc. Look and see what the early church fathers believed (people like Justin Martyr or Clement of Alexandria). I think you'll find that many did not believe in what is commonly termed as Calvinism.

That being said, I believe this debate between Calvinism and Arminianism has to stand on Scripture. It really doesn't matter what uninspired people condemn as heresy (especially when they're already biased towards the reformed and against anyone or anything else that isn't).

I believe we can enjoy learning things from both Arminians and Calvinists. I read and listen to Calvinists (Piper, MacArthur, Pink, etc.) and I also read things written by Arminians (Tozer, Ravenhill, Wesley, etc.). Why do people feel the need to totally condemn one side of Christianity or ther other? I know people who believe we maybe shouldn't associate with Calvinists because they serve a different God. I don't hold to that, I have friends that are "reformed" and friends who aren't. Friends who are baptist and anabaptist, etc, etc.

In saying all that, I believe we need to have balance and love in all things. Even when we disagree on doctrine. :-)


_________________
Jordan

 2009/7/11 16:33Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1014
Germany NRW

 Re:

Quote:
"Those who think they have no traditions are the most enslaved by them."

Find out what your tradition is. Everybody approaches the truth from a certain point in time, with a certain background and understanding already. Now figure out what "interpretive glasses" you are wearing and judge them according to Scripture to see if they are not distorting the truth.

We should always be reforming



Brother, May I ask you the same question??

I love to listen to Spurgeon, John Piper and Paul Washer. Their aim is to magnify Christ and win souls. Their Calvinism is of secondary importance to them. I would call then "Messianic Calvinists" :-P
You do not need Calvin to come to Salvation. Calvinism is a man made system with many flaws. There are many truths Calvinism fails to explain.
It is also unfair to brand a non Calvinist Arminianist by default. Some Calvinists go so far as to question a dear fellow brother's salvation because he does not subscribe to their theory.
That is very dangerous because they are confusing some of these least of our brothers.
I would never question the salvation of a Calvinist brother whose life is full of the fruit of the Spirit. I glady work hand in hand with them and I know they receive me, too. I do believe that I stand in this together with Greg Gordon.

We do not need Calvin or Arminius or anyone else but the Holy Spirit as a teacher. Only He has full view of all truth. I do not need Calvin to teach me what the Holy Spirit who dwells in me reveals to me not just a propositional doctrine but also as personal applicable truth beyond doubt.

The dilemma of a scribe is that you can know all the doctrine and yet completely miss the reality of truth coming alive in a man. Even Satan knows all the doctrines of the bible better than any Christian yet he only destroys, kills and lies.

You have unloaded all your Calvinistic ammunition here and you were not the first one to do so. May be you even win some "converts" to Calvinism here.

Is the proselyting of brothers to Calvinism the calling Christ gave you?

Should you not rather devote your obvious passion to the winning of souls?

Would you be unsettled if you have to share eternity with some who do not share your view of salvation?


narrowpath

 2009/7/11 18:36Profile
yoadam
Member



Joined: 2009/2/10
Posts: 97
OREGON

 Re:

Quote:

rbanks wrote:
“Article 9: Election Not Based on Foreseen Faith

This same election took place, not on the basis of foreseen faith, of the obedience of faith, of holiness, or of any other good quality and disposition, as though it were based on a prerequisite cause or condition in the person to be chosen, but rather for the purpose of faith, of the obedience of faith, of holiness, and so on. Accordingly, election is the source of each of the benefits of salvation. Faith, holiness, and the other saving gifts, and at last eternal life itself, flow forth from election as its fruits and effects. As the apostle says, He chose us (not because we were, but) so that we should be holy and blameless before him in love (Eph. 1:4).”
Quote-

It is amazing to me how people who have been enlightened so much in the truth of God are willing to so easily go beyond the scriptures. Right here is where he starts to greatly err. It is not the truth from the word of God in Calvinism that bothers me at all; it is the interpretation beyond the scriptures. The apostle Paul didn’t even take that liberty upon himself and Mr. John Calvin can’t even hold a candlestick next to the apostle Paul. Even the apostle Peter said that many wrestle to their own destruction over the writings of the apostle Paul because He had gained so much wisdom from God and it was very hard for many to understand. John Calvin never walked in the power of the Holy Spirit like the apostles, but many are willing to lay hold of his teachings that go beyond scripture as thought they are the very words of God. I fear God to much than to go beyond what the scriptures reveal and speak for God himself concerning predestination.

Blessings to you all!


I reject this. Your assertion that we are "going beyond the scriptures" is utter nonsense. You are absolutely wrong in your accusations of going beyond and "wrest"ing (twisting) scripture. Everything we hold to regarding predestination is clearly set forth throughout the whole of scripture-- but especially Romans 9 and Ephesians 1. (Unless you are one of those people who also thinks we should not even believe the doctrine of the holy Trinity? Because the word Trinity is not in the Bible you know...)

I am amazed at your level of ignorance towards the man John Calvin. On what basis can you say he "never walked in the power of the Holy Spirit like the apostles." I would be hard pressed to find anybody else in the history of the church, living today or dead, other than perhaps, Whitefield, who would be a better candidate for a modern day Apostle. Never the less, it is entirely your presupposition that we even still have an apostolic office today.

Finally, your initial assertion that the reformed teaching of election goes beyond scripture was judged by the assembly back at the synod of dordt. In the canons of dordt article 18.1,

Rejection of the Errors
by Which the Dutch Churches Have for Some Time Been Disturbed
Having set forth the orthodox teaching concerning election and reprobation, the Synod rejects the errors of those

I

Who teach that the will of God to save those who would believe and persevere in faith and in the obedience of faith is the whole and entire decision of election to salvation, and that nothing else concerning this decision has been revealed in God's Word.

For they deceive the simple and plainly contradict Holy Scripture in its testimony that God does not only wish to save those who would believe, but that he has also from eternity chosen certain particular people to whom, rather than to others, he would within time grant faith in Christ and perseverance. As Scripture says, I have revealed your name to those whom you gave me (John 17:6). Likewise, All who were appointed for eternal life believed (Acts 13:48), and He chose us before the foundation of the world so that we should be holy... (Eph. 1:4).


_________________
Adam

 2009/7/11 18:52Profile
yoadam
Member



Joined: 2009/2/10
Posts: 97
OREGON

 Re:

Quote:

narrowpath wrote:
Quote:
"Those who think they have no traditions are the most enslaved by them."

Find out what your tradition is. Everybody approaches the truth from a certain point in time, with a certain background and understanding already. Now figure out what "interpretive glasses" you are wearing and judge them according to Scripture to see if they are not distorting the truth.

We should always be reforming



Brother, May I ask you the same question??

I love to listen to Spurgeon, John Piper and Paul Washer. Their aim is to magnify Christ and win souls. Their Calvinism is of secondary importance to them. I would call then "Messianic Calvinists" :-P
You do not need Calvin to come to Salvation. Calvinism is a man made system with many flaws. There are many truths Calvinism fails to explain.
It is also unfair to brand a non Calvinist Arminianist by default. Some Calvinists go so far as to question a dear fellow brother's salvation because he does not subscribe to their theory.
That is very dangerous because they are confusing some of these least of our brothers.
I would never question the salvation of a Calvinist brother whose life is full of the fruit of the Spirit. I glady work hand in hand with them and I know they receive me, too. I do believe that I stand in this together with Greg Gordon.

We do not need Calvin or Arminius or anyone else but the Holy Spirit as a teacher. Only He has full view of all truth. I do not need Calvin to teach me what the Holy Spirit who dwells in me reveals to me not just a propositional doctrine but also as personal applicable truth beyond doubt.

The dilemma of a scribe is that you can know all the doctrine and yet completely miss the reality of truth coming alive in a man. Even Satan knows all the doctrines of the bible better than any Christian yet he only destroys, kills and lies.

You have unloaded all your Calvinistic ammunition here and you were not the first one to do so. May be you even win some "converts" to Calvinism here.

Is the proselyting of brothers to Calvinism the calling Christ gave you?

Should you not rather devote your obvious passion to the winning of souls?

Would you be unsettled if you have to share eternity with some who do not share your view of salvation?


narrowpath


Hi.

First. I am sure Spurgeon, Piper, & Washer's Calvinism is NOT secondary to them. As someone has already pointed out in this thread, Washer preaches Calvinism. He tries not to "get into it", but it is unavoidable because what he preaches is clearly "calvinistic."

Second. Calvinism was not invented by Calvin, as I have said, it is Pauline. I'm sure Calvin would have a cow if found out that the gospel was attached to his name in theological circles! Now, I assert that you DO need to calvinism to be saved, if by that you mean the gospel. That is the issue: The Gospel.

Third. I agree we do not need Calvin or Arminius or any teacher than the Holy Spirit. Once again, we all come to scripture with our own "interpretive glasses". I submit to you the reformed ("calvinistic") glasses are the correct ones harmonious with the scriptures as a whole.

Somebody explained why this controversy is very important on the first page of this thread and I would like to echo it with another hearty "AMEN" here:
Quote:
Finally, where you land on this issue really does affect the way you view the world, evil, your confidence in your eternal future, your preaching and teaching, the spiritual health of the visible church, even your view of God himself. That is why this issue has been debated for centuries and why it is an important debate as it can directly affect the believer's state of mind and ministry.



Lastly, you said,
Quote:
Is the proselyting of brothers to Calvinism the calling Christ gave you?

Should you not rather devote your obvious passion to the winning of souls?

Would you be unsettled if you have to share eternity with some who do not share your view of salvation?


I just want you to know that you do not even know me. You don't know my story. The Lord assured me of my salvation in the august of 2006 when I had the hell scared out of me by the finneyites. It happened after many sleepless nights... I even tried repenting in sackclotch and ashes, but to no avail, it was my own flesh trying to get right with God via works! Finally, on one lonely night, I simply opened up the Bible and started reading Ephesians. As read Ephesians 1 it was as if "The lights came on" and I [i]KNEW[/i] that I was adopted as His son, presdestinated before the foundation of the world! I fell to my knees and began to thank the Lord over and over and my heart was filled with such great joy! Ever since that moment in 2006 I have been running hard for my Lord-- not sinlessly-- but I have by His grace persevered. All of this led up my embracing the doctrines of grace as I read and understood more of scripture and especially as I faced Romans chapter 9 head-on. During these years I lived a year in Hawaii doing inner-city missions, two summers in the Marshall Islands serving the poor, and now I preach the gospel to unchurched kids at an afterschool program 5 days a week. Sermonindex is a spare-time activity. Pray for me brother. In the next few years, Lord willing, I hope to attend seminary online, and simultaneously attend university of Oregon to major in Linguistics and become a Bible translator.

In answer to your last question, see how George Whitefield closed his letter to John Wesley, "No, Dear Sir, You Mistake."

"Dear Sir, these things ought not so to be. God knows my heart, as I told you before, so I declare again, nothing but a single regard to the honour of Christ has forced this letter from me. I love and honour you for his sake; and when I come to judgment, will thank you before men and angels, for what you have, under God, done for my soul.
There, I am persuaded, I shall see dear Mr. Wesley convinced of election and everlasting love. And it often fills me with pleasure to think how I shall behold you casting your crown down at the feet of the Lamb, and as it were filled with a holy blushing for opposing the divine sovereignty in the manner you have done.
But I hope the Lord will show you this before you go hence. O how do I long for that day! If the Lord should be pleased to make use of this letter for that purpose, it would abundantly rejoice the heart of, dear and honoured Sir,
Yours affectionate, though unworthy brother and servant in Christ,

GEORGE WHITEFIELD."

Grace & Peace to you from God!

Adam Schaefers


_________________
Adam

 2009/7/11 19:20Profile
yoadam
Member



Joined: 2009/2/10
Posts: 97
OREGON

 Re:

Quote:

Miccah wrote:

yoadam wrote:
Quote:


Calvin is a good guy. No need to fear him. Oh and it was his 500th birthday yesterday. I guess anyone who the church is still talking about 500 years later is worth looking into... :-)




How about focusing that on Jesus, instead of a mortal man.

Regardless of your stance on Cal/Arm, we should never look to man for our beliefs, unless He is Jesus.


Amen. Good thing Calvin taught what Jesus and Paul taught! :-)

First thread starts out slamming Calvin and reformed orthodoxy. Then when someone like myself defends that Calvin simply preached the gospel according to the scriptures, people tell me to take my eyes off Calvin???

This kind of reasoning is absurd! :-o


_________________
Adam

 2009/7/11 19:27Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

yoadam wrote:

...but that he has also from eternity chosen certain particular people to whom, rather than to others, he would within time grant faith in Christ and perseverance.



The apostle Paul never said such as this and neither will you find it in all of the Holy Scriptures. It is only found in the writings of Calvinism and I will not trust in what Calvinism believes to save me, but only in the precious Lord Jesus Christ-in the blood of his everlasting covenant.

Blessings to you!

 2009/7/11 20:21Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy