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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : CAN BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS LOOSE SALVATION and END UP IN HELL?

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reformer
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Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:


Hmmhmm wrote

Quote:
david, if the book of hebrews does not apply to us in these times in the western culture, what parts of the book of hebrews does apply to us?



All scripture is relevant to us in this century and those to come. Within the framework of Hebrews we must understand the complete text, not that we must be Jewish for it to be relevant or for us not to be Jewish so we can excuse it. This verse somes it up for me:
"for He, having offered ONE sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD." Hebrews 10:12

The key here is [u]one sacrifice[/u], meaning there is nothing that we can offer God for our atonement for our sins. Not works, any religion, or Jewish tradition. So if we avoid or think we can atone for our sins by some other way, then there remains no other sacrifice.

reformer

 2009/7/6 21:26Profile
reformer
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Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:
JESUS DID NOT OBEY GOD FOR US.



So why did He come, if not for us?

 2009/7/6 21:39Profile
reformer
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Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:

tjservant wrote:
Quote:
I hate to sound like a Calvinist, but Judas was in the position he was in as a disciple because God's plan from the very beginning was that Jesus would be betrayed... and the word "betrayed" means stabbed in the back by someone close to you. It had everything to do with prophecy and God's plan and will.



:-)

Doesn't sound like anything but Truth to me.



John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, [u]and none of them is lost[/u], but [b]the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled[/b]."

 2009/7/6 21:43Profile
rbanks
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Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Brethren,

If we say that man does not have to exercise his will by placing faith in Jesus Christ in order to be born of God, if we say that man does not have to exercise his will in faithful obedience to the commands of God in order to stay in fellowship with Him, and if we say that man does not have to endure until the end to final salvation, then we are saying that God does not love all his creation and has only decided to save some and not others. In fact we are accusing God of predestining some to everlasting life and others to everlasting destruction if man has no part before God in salvation. We also are violating the scriptures of man’s responsibility.

Also concerning Judas being saved, the scriptures say that he was the son of perdition. Judas was of the devil and would not repent and trust in Christ as his Savior and so he therefore would not be saved. God does not save people against their will but they must cooperate with God.

This thing about OSAS is the devil’s ploy to cause all kinds confusion among the brethren. God is not the author of confusion.

Joh 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Joh 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Those who belong to Christ know his voice and they follow him. They will not follow the voice of strangers because they don’t know them. We must make are calling and election sure. He has proven that he is the good shepherd and we must prove that we are one of his. The only way we can prove that we are one of his is by continually hearing his voice and continually following Him. If you say that you are saved and will always be saved, then don’t draw back unto perdition but believe unto the saving of the soul.

Blessings to all

 2009/7/6 21:51Profile
reformer
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Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:

Brothertom wrote:
Paul said that if you did not continue in faith, you would be cut off. Jesus said that your name could be blotted out from the Book of Life, if no repentance to Godliness was evident.


It's like an apple on a tree, and a wind storm. If the apple is blown to the field below, did it fall from the tree? You must a part of the tree, to fall away from the tree. There are multiple references to this TRUTH , and especially evident in the WARNINGS by every Apostle in scripture. See acts 20, the Book of Jude, and the lists to Christians that state,


"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,"
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter)

Written to Christians by the apostle himself,;Not to the lost outsiders obviously. Why? WARNING! You will die if you are unholy!


The parable of the sower and the seed is also one..."And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful."
Mark 4:18-20 (in Context) Mark 4 (Whole Chapter)


Many more; we must endure to the end and without holiness, no man shall see God. We can become castaways and must subdue and crucify our lusts. Open sin is open rebellion, born again or not; it is still rebellion; and God must condemn those who persist in their lusts, otherwise Heaven would not be Heaven.



So who can be saved? If I sin once then I am doomed for hell? Are you saying it is a continual repentance for every unclean act? I had an impure thought today or I was unkind when I should have been unkind. Or even if I have shown partiality, it is sin. If what I know that I should do and not do it is sin.

reformer

 2009/7/6 22:04Profile
bible1985
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Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 354


 Re:

So if we have gone back to losing our salvation then according to many scriptures we can't get it back, hebrews ch. 6 and 2nd peter. So if i loss my salvation i am better off just dying right now because their is no purpose to live but to die and go where you know i don't want to go. Maybe charles finney was right about his friend who said the holy spirit left him and the holy spirit never came back to the man. That is how i fill, like the holy spirit wil not come no matter how much i cry and pray and as charles finney says your heart will become hardened towards god like me. The only hope i have is this that i never truly repented of my sins and my only reasoning for coming to christ was for healing and not salvation from my sins, maybe the fact that i placed my faith in christ for the wrong thing and not for him to save me of my sins maybe that is why my faith fell the way it did. Maybe biblical repentance is the important thing, but that is my only hope that mine was not a true conversion because i did not place my faith in christ for salvation of my sins, i only came to christ for him to deliver and heal me and if he did not i probably wouldn't believe. That is my only hope, i never came to christ because of my sins, its that simple, but i was changed, but i guess not for the right reasons.

 2009/7/6 22:21Profile
tjservant
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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:
God is not the author of confusion.



True.


I endured several pain filled years trying to make sense of it all. I finally stopped listening to man and started reading the Word.

I am no longer confused.

The Bible is clear.

Quote:
This thing about OSAS is the devil’s ploy to cause all kinds confusion among the brethren



I find that most of the confusion comes from those who do not accept it and spread misconceptions and false understandings.

I should know. I did it.


_________________
TJ

 2009/7/6 22:36Profile
Watered
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Joined: 2008/7/27
Posts: 42


 Re:

i dont know if i should be writing this but i will just say somthing that i have learned.

This is all i want to say, i belive in once saved always saved, i really belive that. i belive that the one who started a good work in me will FINISH IT.

now i believe that a person can find out that he was never saved for example, lets say someone professed his faith and shows some sort of genuine fruit for a time, it can even be a few years, but then he starts to fall away and starts doing things that are clearly sin and he does them without being broken over them and confessing and repenting but continues in his sin and other brothers and sisters come to him and warn him that if he continues on this path it me be proof that HE WAS NEVER SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE NOT THAT HE LOST HIS SALVATION.

plus to tell you the truth guys, i might be totally wrong, but think about it if God is my father and i have been genuinely saved how in the world is God gonna let me go? like seriously you think you can run from God once you have been saved? their can be a period of when a person runs from God but it might be God allowing them or it might be part of his plan. But if they are truly Christian they will know the wrong they have done and they will come back. Paul Washer once shared how he wanted to run from God, but he said that no matter where he would run God would be their.

Once you have been born how can you be unborn?
once God gives you a NEW nature how can the old nature be put back in?
once you have a new heart how can the old heart be placed back in?

i believe in finding out that you never have been saved but losing your salvation, doesn't seem right to me at all.


 2009/7/6 23:35Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3301
Texas

 Re:

O sluefoot must be grinning from ear to ear reading this thread. :-(


_________________
Bill

 2009/7/6 23:54Profile
reformer
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Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:

bible1985 wrote:
So if we have gone back to losing our salvation then according to many scriptures we can't get it back, hebrews ch. 6 and 2nd peter. So if i loss my salvation i am better off just dying right now because their is no purpose to live but to die and go where you know i don't want to go. Maybe charles finney was right about his friend who said the holy spirit left him and the holy spirit never came back to the man. That is how i fill, like the holy spirit wil not come no matter how much i cry and pray and as charles finney says your heart will become hardened towards god like me. The only hope i have is this that i never truly repented of my sins and my only reasoning for coming to christ was for healing and not salvation from my sins, maybe the fact that i placed my faith in christ for the wrong thing and not for him to save me of my sins maybe that is why my faith fell the way it did. Maybe biblical repentance is the important thing, but that is my only hope that mine was not a true conversion because i did not place my faith in christ for salvation of my sins, i only came to christ for him to deliver and heal me and if he did not i probably wouldn't believe. That is my only hope, i never came to christ because of my sins, its that simple, but i was changed, but i guess not for the right reasons.



For one...put away Finney.

We all to some degree come to Christ not fully understanding, they question is have you passed from death to life? John 5:24

 2009/7/7 6:37Profile





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