Dear brethren,It is one thing to "discuss" about certain doctrine of one preacher, it is another to say he is going to hell and leading his congregation to hell. If you are not mature, at least be spiritually mature before you speak out against anyone appointed and/or anointed by God.Don't judge to hell a pastor because he interprets the bible differently. I say this only once, we (including you) are all saved by the skin of our teeth, and not even by our own obedience. Don't be so proud and confident. Only faith in Christ's finished work saves. Other doctrines the Church(body of Christ) is still fighting it out. Tongues, Baptism of the Holy Spirit, immersion or sprinkle baptism, translations of the bible, style of worship, etc. We can all ask God one day which is right. There is only one Gospel. It is that because of Jesus finished work, we are saved by grace through faith. And I believe that Jesus did a perfect work taking ALL our sins on Himself. If He did not, He would not be sitting at the right hand of God the Father. (Read Heb 10:2 & 12, and the whole chapter) Also remember to rightly divide the Word using the cross as the reference point. Every wondered why the Church don't practice cutting off hands or plucking out eyes? Jesus said it. He said it to make the Jews of that day realize that without a Savior they were doomed. Don't quote verses out of there without understanding to whom, when, and what it is saying. Finally, I attend New Creation Church and I have no idea what prosperity gospel or another gospel many here are saying? There is no such thing as a prosperity gospel, but where the Gospel goes, there it prospers. I further request all of you who post here to pray about it before posting. Pastor Joseph Prince has never mislead people into seeking God for wealth for lustful and selfish living. This is a link to a prayer during a sermonhttp://www.4shared.com/audio/ZBb1jm-3/prayer_ncc.htmlHe says we are blessed not to be materialistic or greedy but to be a blessing to others. Any one who maintains their prejudice against this pastor obviously has not listened to more than 5 full sermons. Many people who slam are amazing. I've heard and seen many youtubes excerpts that take him out of context. It's like quoting Jesus and telling non-believers to pluck out their eye if they lust coz Jesus commands it. and we all know that is out of context. I say all this because many don't know what they are saying and are accusing without full facts or knowledge. Thank God He doesn't look at you with partial facts and knowledge. God knows all about you and still loves you.
Unburdened, You said, "He says we are blessed not to be materialistic or greedy but to be a blessing to others."I understand where you are coming from...I personally do not judge Joseph Prince in his salvation, but when a pastor goes out there in the public arena then he opens himself up to the brethren being able to test what he says against what the WORD OF GOD says. The prosperity doctrine is completely opposite to the teaching of Christ. So putting Joseph Prince aside personally, we need to look at his teaching and how it stacks up against the life of Christ & the Word of Christ.I have done a thorough and in depth study through Luke recently and what I learnt was how money is the root of all evil. People who are blessed to give money as a blessing are very very few. The gospels preach so radically against money and the evils of money & how money is our world's biggest temptation. I simply cannot accept that it is ok for a preacher to teach that God will bless you with loads of money to bless others and then have a huge amount left over for youself for a huge house, nice cars, fancy hair styles for the wife every 4-6 weeks, including nails etc etc...WHEN all over the world people are starving to death. There is always a need to give money away for the poor and sick, so I cannot see how these so called rich Christians are blessing others but still living in such material lives, while so many starve to death. The needs will never run out. There is always bible to send to those in persecuted countries, those Christian families in need of support whose husband and fathers have been killed because of their faith. Unless every sick and poor person is provided for and every widow provided for and every orphanded child homed, every country with enough Bibles, every country be filled with radical sold out believers...then there is not way it is ok for someone to sit in their riches or someone preach to them that it is ok to make money and spend it on yourself on superfilous, materialistic things when there are these needs all over the world. The facts are: there will always be a need until the return of Christ for providing for others. I pray every Christian sitting on a stackload of weath or spending money on themselves to have a fancy house (when they do not need it), or a fancy car (when they can get by with just a simple one), fancy clothes, fancy hairstyles, fancy mega conferences to attend...is convicted and repents of this!There is no excuse to live in such abundance and excess when there are dire needs all over the world. Personally, I was in prosperity doctrine churches (two) for about 5-6 years and I wish I had known about testing their teaching instead of just accepting the rubbish I was being taught. - I have seen the type of teaching that you say is not a prosperity doctrine...who own the most fancy houses, whose wives are dressed in the most fancy clothes, who ask people who do not dress up enough to leave their church, whose women get their nails manicured to show off, who drive the biggest, fanciest clothes, who brag about how they have riches not because they are materialistic but because they are blessed to bless others! Give me a break!Our main pastor in that church had the fanciest house I have ever seen! He was paying US$1000 per week! At that time in New Zealand that was disgusting and so completely "out there"...yet they preached the same tune as Joseph Prince teachings (from what your own admission in your post).Then on another more sobering note... - from my experience most of those poor people in the prosperity doctrine/word of faith churches that I was in were ALL immature believers. This disgusting teaching attracts new and immature, impressionable Christians. The other fact I can attend to is that within 10 years 90% of all those who were born again through the prosperity churches that I knew & attended, that were discipled etc...have fallen away from GOD completely...not just their prosperity church but GOD. That is something that shatters me. The orginal seed planted amongst the thorns. I saw these girls get saved and I saw their seed destroyed & choked out by the disgusting prosperity doctrine/ word of faith teaching. One of those dear sisters died in her mid 20's of cancer - she was a number of years post her prosperity doctrine church when she was diagnosed with cancer and died within a year. Here we have a young girl who was sucked into that foul teaching, who then had her seed destroyed by the filthy teaching & who died so soon after. I had visited her months before she died and she was destroyed and hurt by the false teaching. I prayed for her and hope that her orginal seed planted by the Lord became life before she died. So rather than think "poor Joseph Prince", perhaps you should think and pray wholeheartedly for the impressionable young naive souls (like my friend) whose have been destroyed by the prosperity doctrine teachings.I encourage you to read the gospels and study every word Jesus said, not Joseph Prince. Put away those sermons and I challenge you to, after studing every parable Jesus taught to still come back and still say that it is biblical what he is teaching. Through Him
_________________What you are on your knees before Almighty God, that you are and no more. (John Owen)
Don't judge to hell a pastor because he interprets the bible differently. I say this only once, we (including you) are all saved by the skin of our teeth, and not even by our own obedience. Don't be so proud and confident. Only faith in Christ's finished work saves. Other doctrines the Church(body of Christ) is still fighting it out. Tongues, Baptism of the Holy Spirit, immersion or sprinkle baptism, translations of the bible, style of worship, etc. We can all ask God one day which is right.
hi, half of you think i am nuts anyway and might be right but i see no fault in him.in countrys with an open bible you will see great prosperity (south korea) as opposed to closed bibles (north korea) are broke look at israel and how green it is and how it has prospered and the us and south africa and australia. look at china since revival has broken out in the homes of thousands, look at the revival in south america where the areas of revival hit the produce of the farmers became so large that it could only be the work of God as they prospered and stopped dying from alcoholism.i agree that some have profited with a lot of bad doctrine missusing the word but do not throw the kids out with the wash.jimp
"in countrys with an open bible you will see great prosperity (south korea) as opposed to closed bibles (north korea)"Hi jimp, Look I will have to disagree with you on this point. I never look at countries on a whole but rather individual lives. I am called to give to the needy and the poor and treat my neighbour as I would wanted to be treated myself. I think you will be hardpressed to find every single person in what you call 'countries with an open bible', cared for their basic needs fufilled. Unless there has been dramatic change in the US since one of my visit in 1999, where I saw poor people begging on the street...My point in my last post is simple. There is absolutely no excuse for a Christian to believe and live in excess, when there are so many needs around them and in other nations. There will always be needs until Jesus returns and so it is just disgusting and foul to live in excess, choosing to live in extravagence and luxury when people are in need. No excuse! Then you have the teachers who teach that it is ok to live in excess and indulgence because that is sign God is blessing you. That is discpicable - self-centered and not Christ centred. There are needs in every single country in the world, even the so called open bible ones. There will always be sick, needy, widows, needs for Bible in countries that are closed, needs for families ministering in closed countries...the list is endless. There is simply no excuse to live an excessive life as a Christian. I will be praying for those who have taken part in this discussion.Through Him only
dear carter,i could not agree with you more.even though i have been blest many times financially by God. i live to give and live in one room w/o a kitchen. len ravenhill was the one who showed me that the open bible brings a blessing on a nation.we in the us have been blessed so much that it has become our curse.jimp
jimp... I think there is some truth in what you say as it pertains to nations. In individual lives tho it is quite different. Generally speaking, in nations where there is much prosperity the church is fat and lazy and whorish.Thats where America is right now.If prosperity will do that to me... I dont want it. What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?Krispy
It's a great church where Gospel of Jesus Christ is taught and expounded well but I agree with most comments that the messages are received well because it emphasizes on wealth and health as easily obtainable through no dead works. While Pastor Joseph Prince may be correct, the many who listen and read his sermons may take the easy way out and he has no qualms about wrong belief because he emphasises that your belief should be scripturally correct. So one point, he says his messages are all of grace, the next says that you when listening to him must seek out your own "salvation" in understanding what he means and he's not responsible for your own folly! That's what he is! Hence I add that many of his leaders and followers are very shallow ! Why do I say that because I am led by some of the most arrogant and flamboyant leaders who think that they are right so long as they follow Pastor Prince's sermons and messages and DISREGARD any other pastors messages as being not right and not relevant! When I share on an issue like deliverance, the leaders run it down as being from pit of hell and that deliverance should never be practised in New Creation! So much for a church! Lest I commit more sin and I confess my limited knowledge of his good intentions and I ask God for forgiveness of my ignorance and not like others who ask Pastor Prince and his leaders for forgiveness less you get condemned by the church and by the leaders there! I seek the Wisdom of God and His Righteousness as from Jesus will I be led and not by any man, whether of God or otherwise because all man of God do one time or the other fall in the sin of Pride and Prejudice. Amen.
There is really nothing wrong with prosperity and health and other good things that Jesus Christ wants us to have! However to believe in them without really working for it, means you rest on shallow foundations of faith! Not On Jesus' faith! You look to the things NOT to Jesus! You look to Jesus for these things and not to JeSUS per se! How can you have what it says in Matthew 6:33
Every thing that a Pastor says "is it gospel truth?"Tell me if you attend New Creation Church, why are rich tithers [NOT LEADERS] given special rows in front and always there without queue and without reservation but yet they are snobbish and arrogant towards other members in church! If you dont know that, see the fourth row (D) where there are so many people there that are NOT leaders but rich men and wives and their children and even third row : especially during first service! Why such a privilege to the rich tithers? Or are they relatives of church leaders that they are given those seats? These people come in late and they dont queue! Why are people given special audience to lunch and dine with Pastor Prince while many others dont even get to 1 foot from him?
