| Re: Praying through to Victory over sin|
I am so glad I read your comments today.
It is Christ in us the Hope of Glory.
He is our ever present help.
He is our Peace.
Thank-God for His Rest.
He wants to do the work in us.
We only hinder Him when we try to help.
Don't know about you but I'm glad that nothing
can seperate us from His Love.
Still have a lot to learn about our Saviour.
God Bless ,and I know He will.
| 2004/9/2 13:15||Profile|
Isn't it true in every case that the instrument of salvation is faith? Isn't this the method God has chosen? Yes, in the deepest sense, it was Jesus who saved the women and the blind man in Luke but He still said "thy faith has saved thee" because he knew that faith would not claim any glory for self.
I don't think we are far apart here.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(Eph 2:8 KJV)
Faith is indeed the instrument, but not the Saviour. It is the channel through which God had determined to bring grace, but in the fulness of the revelation it is 'dia-through' faith. On Luke 7:50 Adam Clarke says "Thy faith hath been the instrument of receiving the salvation which is promised to those who repent." I note that the Lord said this after the event. To say it before the event would be to focus on faith rather than the object of that faith.
| 2004/9/2 13:38||Profile|
Once again, a great conversation! I'm so glad to see people who are really striving for the fullness of Christ! People who are eager and hungry and have come together to help each other on the way.
I apologize for posting a bit much but I strongly believe I'm not the only person at this particular place in their journey.
No need for apology, you are not alone in this situation, that's for sure! Some have come a bit futher down the road than others, but these things are just foundational and so very important. So thank you for starting the thread and for sharing what is on your heart! I for one am glad that you did.
| 2004/9/2 15:51||Profile|
| Re: keeping power|
Amazingly, I came across this by Watchamn Nee and confirms what we were all saying here and that I was not just fumbling around with my thoughts and words. :-) It does indeed have to do with trust (or lack of) and unbelief. Thank you God. :)
An excerpt from Watchman Nee's God's Keeping Power
It is a distressing fact that some Christians believe in God's saving power, but they do not believe in His keeping power. They have received God's saving grace but have not yet received His keeping grace. They do not realize that He who is the Giver of grace is also the One who maintains us in His grace. Let us see from the Scriptures how we who have been saved by God can be kept by Him.
We are totally unable to keep ourselves in the grace of God. There is no guarantee that even five years after we have been saved we will be found in the measure of faith we had in our earlier Christian life. We cannot abide in the grace of God by our own effort; He alone can maintain us in His grace.
Let us now look into the practical outworking of this. We must not forget that there is a condition attached to God's keeping power. If we do not trust Him, He is unable to keep us. In order to experience His salvation, and in order to have His keeping power, we must believe wholeheartedly in His promises. If after we have overcome, we doubt whether our overcoming experience can be sustained, we are discrediting His keeping power. We must believe in God's keeping power. Every morning when we rise we should say to Him, "God, I thank You for keeping me yesterday, and today You will still keep me. I do not know what temptations may befall me, and I do not know how I can overcome. I cannot do anything; but I believe You will keep me." First Peter 1:5 speaks of being "guarded by the power of God through faith." God guards those who have faith in Him. We do not have to grapple with temptations and try to overcome them; the keeping power of God will get us through, and we must believe in His ability to save us from giving way to sin. If we implicitly rely on Him, even when we are unexpectedly assailed by temptations, an amazing thing will happen. In a way we cannot account for, something will ward off all the fiery darts of the evil one. It is the shield of faith. It will come in between us and Satan, so that his fiery darts cannot reach us. Instead of hurting us they will beat upon the shield of faith and rebound on Satan himself.
Paul said, "I am persuaded that He is able to guard my deposit unto that day" (2 Tim. 1:12). Paul did something; he committed himself to the Lord. If you believe in Him, then you must commit yourself to Him. He can only keep those who have handed themselves over to Him. Many people fail to experience the blessedness of His keeping power because they have never put themselves into His care. They have never said to Him, "Lord, I hand myself over to you and commit to You the keeping of my life." Brothers and sisters, have you placed yourselves in His hands? If you truly have, then you will be able to say with Paul, "I am persuaded that He is able to guard my deposit unto that day."
If your life is truly in His hands, then the promise of Jude 24--"to guard you from stumbling and to set you before His glory without blemish in exultation" will be fulfilled in you. To stumble is to slip and strike against something when we are unconscious of any obstruction in the way. Praise God, He will preserve us not only from falling but also from the slightest slippage. Thank and praise the Lord, His preserving grace operates beyond the realm of our consciousness. Brothers and sisters, if we commit ourselves unreservedly into His care, we will marvel at the way we are kept. When temptation suddenly assails and love is required, we will find love spontaneously welling up from within. When a sudden temptation demands patience, without giving it a moment's thought, our patience will rise up to meet the need. Praise God, as the life we received from Adam spontaneously expresses itself, so also does the life we receive from Christ. We inherited our bad temper from Adam, and we can become angry without the slightest effort of will. We inherited pride from Adam, and we can become proud without any deliberate decision. In the same way, those who have received the life of Christ and committed themselves into His keeping can be meek without making up their minds to be meek, and humble without any effort to be humble. The same spontaneity of manifestation that characterizes the life we have received from Adam also characterizes the life we have received from Christ. To work out what the Lord Jesus has given us does not require any effort on our part. If we trust in His promises and commit ourselves utterly to Him, we will be kept from this day to the day of His return, and we will be kept without blemish. Thank God, we have a salvation which is worthy of our trust and which will withstand every trial.
| 2004/9/2 18:42||Profile|
| Re: pressing on|
I don't want to end this without saying that I do believe we are to continue to "press on". I have this imbedded in my heart- to keep pressing on, going up higher, reaching for the fullness of Christ. Just so you don't think I mean that we don't do anything at all and are just being lazy. :-P
In Him, Chanin
| 2004/9/2 18:50||Profile|
| Re: Thanks|
Thanks to everybody who has taken part in this forum. I was greatly blessed by the many responses, for this is where I am in my spiritual walk. I just fininshed listening to Power Over Sin by David Wilkerson, and he said very much the same thing as Chip Brogen in Victory is a Man.
This place is becoming more and more like a church as Mike is fond of calling it. Coming together in one heart and mind. Again thanks to all you have shared their thoughts on this topic.
Kept by His Power Alone
| 2004/9/2 19:14||Profile|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
I don't want to end this without saying that I do believe we are to continue to "press on". I have this imbedded in my heart- to keep pressing on, going up higher, reaching for the fullness of Christ. Just so you don't think I mean that we don't do anything at all and are just being lazy.
Yes I have been thinking on how to get across the fact that the surrendered life in many ways is more active than an unsurrendered life. I have been reading some short accounts of saints from the past and I really saw this stick out.. there talking about surrender but at the same time their displine, counting the cost, eradication, prayer life and many other things that people around them shout: LEGALISM, THATS GOING TO FAR! but its all came for them from a deep grasp of their nothingness and God being all in all.
These quotes and excerpts will greatly bless you all, I had you in mind quite abit to share these Chanin ;-) enjoy.
Bramwell was a methodist minister in the late 1700's that had an enlarged prayer life that made his ministry very successful, only eternity alone will let us know what this man accomplished on his knees.
"I am all weakness; indeed, I see nothing will do but a continual dependence and a living upon His mercy-and oh, the depth of mercy! It is continual prayer that brings the soul into all the glory. I am striving with continual prayer to live nearer to God than I have ever done, and He brings my soul into closer union. I live with Jesus; He is my all. I am less than nothing in His sight. This walking with God, this conversation in Heaven! Oh how I am ashamed! I sink in silent love. I wonder how the Lord has borne with me for so long. I never had such a view of God and myself. I pray that every moment of my life may show forth His praise."
"How is it that the soul being of such value, and God so great, eternity so near, and yet we are so little moved? Perhaps you can answer me this. Never was I so much struck with the Word of God as at present. The truth, the depth, the promises quite swallow me up. I am lost in wonder and praise. My soul enters into Christ in His blessed Book. His own sayings take faster hold on me than ever. I could read, and weep, and love, and suffer! Yes, what could I not suffer when I thus see Him? Justification is great; to be cleansed is great; but what is justification, or the being cleansed, when compared to this being taken into Himself? The world, the noise of self, is all gone, and the mind bears the full stamp of God's image. Here you talk and walk and live, doing all in Him and to Him, continuing in prayer and turning all into Christ in every house, in every company."
"I see the greatest necessity of purity in the outward man. To keep the whole requires constant prayer, watching, and looking to Christ. I mean that the soul never be diverted from Him for one moment, but that I view Him in all my acts, take hold of Him as the instrument by which I do all my work, and feel that nothing is done without Him. To seek men, the world, or self, or praise is so shocking to my view at present, that I wonder we are not all struck dead when the least of this comes upon us. I know immediately when I greive my Lord; the Spirit speaks within. To do wrong in the clear light is the great offense. My soul is subject to sloth, and I have work, I assure you, to keep all things at full speed."
"Oh how Satan will tempt you to lie in bed these cold mornings when you should be engaged in prayer and in your study every morning at five o'clock or before. By this practice, what wonders you would do with God, with the Word, with your soul and for your family! Oh arise, my dear brother; you will soon be gone!"
"Do you rise about four o'clock every morning? And in order to do this, do you retire to rest as soon as your work and meals are over, or do you sit and chat with the people? Do give yourself to reading and prayer. I say, give, give yourself to these. Are you never in company above an hour at once? When in company, do you turn all into profit-into religion?"
Mrs Cobb became a methodist in the early 1800's in New York state and lived in much luxury but gave much up and lived as a normal citizen even though she had the ability to live more luxuries. She was a women of deep consecration and prayer, A live made sublime.
"I arose at four this morning. How clear the mind! How great the happiness in keeping the commandments! 'Those that see me early shall find me.' I think this has reference to early in the morning, as well as early in life. It is 'the willing and obedient' that eat the 'good of the land.'"
"How am I going to be kept from sin? By the constant application of the blood of Christ, moment by moment. The heart, while it lies in the cleansing fountain, is kept clean. If in doubt, fly to the present, cleansing blood. Claim this prize all anew, moment by moment. I claim all the purchase of Thy blood, because Thou hast promised and art faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Christ doth not say he hath come shall never hunger, but he that cometh, indicating a continued and constant coming, a perpetual feeding upon the heavenly bread. Even the hidden manna must ever be eatenm to be every satisfying; the soul as well as the body must take its daily bread, or it will hunger and pine. So, too, 'whosoever drinketh of this water' is he that shall never thrist. Not he that has once tasted and has now forsaken the fountain of living waters is he that never thirsts. The secret of our dissatisfaction is in resting on past experience. Forgetting the things that are behind, let us come every day to Christ and recieve anew His life."
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2004/9/2 20:14||Profile|
| Re: Fulness Received and Ears to Hear|
Fulness Received and Ears to Hear
Col. 2  In him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 1:  Fo it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell
John 1:  And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Romans 6:18 Being freed from sin, ye were enslaved to righteousness.
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free.
In the letter to the Romans, Paul doesnt begin to talk about present yourselves to God until he has previously told us about what Christ has done for us, and who we are in Him.
'We have been seated in the heavenlies with Christ' -- but no one shouts 'Hallelujah!', and no one thinks it is wonderful. Everyone is very pious and will go away from a meeting saying: 'We must try and live up to that!' You can say that for the rest of your life, but you will never live up to it! You can pray for the rest of your life, and you will be more and more pious in the flesh, but you will never be a man of the Gospel.
It is up to me [Poil Madsen says] now to speak the living words of God, and it is up to you [readers at SI] to listen. That is more important than anything else, for the Lord says: "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear" (Matthew 11:15). If He speaks and you listen, you will receive what He says, so you can live out from that. Difficulties and sorrows will come, and Satan will attack, but sorrows, enemies and satanic attacks all have one thing as their goal -- the quenching of that living, humble faith which was exercised when you listened and heard and received.
Paul Madsen The Power of the Word of Faith Section 5 (9/2 18:59) currently being posted under Other Speakers.
| 2004/9/3 6:37||Profile|
Wow, great stuff.
I particularly liked what Mother Cobb said "
How am I going to be kept from sin? By the constant application of the blood of Christ, moment by moment. The heart, while it lies in the cleansing fountain, is kept clean. If in doubt, fly to the present, cleansing blood. Claim this prize all anew, moment by moment. I claim all the purchase of Thy blood, because Thou hast promised and art faithful and just to gorgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. "
Amen. I also like the quote from Paul Madsen which says
'We have been seated in the heavenlies with Christ' -- but no one shouts 'Hallelujah!', and no one thinks it is wonderful. Everyone is very pious and will go away from a meeting saying: 'We must try and live up to that!' You can say that for the rest of your life, but you will never live up to it! You can pray for the rest of your life, and you will be more and more pious in the flesh, but you will never be a man of the Gospel."
One things sticks in my mind and this verse has come up in my spirit several times of late (Joel 2:25) .
I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten- the great locust and the young locust, the other locusts and the locust swarm - my great army that I sent among you.
HE will repay us after we repent, after we fully surrender to God, not the other way around. What a wonderful gracious God we serve
| 2004/9/3 7:11||Profile|
| Re: One Last thing from Andrew Murray's Book "Absolute Surrender"|
The Almost-Delivered Man
The man has tried to obey the beautiful law of God. He has loved it, he has wept over his sin, he has tried to conquer, he has tried to overcome fault after fault, but every time he has ended in failure.
What did he mean by "the body of this death"? Did he mean, my body when I die? Verily no. In the eighth chapter you have the answer to this question in the words: "If ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." That is the body of death from which he is seeking deliverance.
And now he is on the brink of deliverance! In the twenty-third verse of the seventh chapter we have the words: "I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." It is a captive that cries: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" He is a man who feels himself bound. But look to the contrast in the second verse of the eighth chapter: "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." That is the deliverance through Jesus Christ our Lord; the liberty to the captive which the Spirit brings. Can you keep captive any longer a man made free by the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"?
But you say, the regenerate man, had not he the Spirit of Jesus when he spoke in the sixth chapter? Yes, but he did not know what the Holy Spirit could do for him.
God does not work by His Spirit as He works by a blind force in nature. He leads His people on as reasonable, intelligent beings, and therefore when He wants to give us that Holy Spirit whom He has promised, He brings us first to the end of self, to the conviction that though we have been striving to obey the law, we have failed. When we have come to the end of that, then He shows us that in the Holy Spirit we have the power of obedience, the power of victory, and the power of real holiness.
God works to will, and He is ready to work to do, but, alas! many Christians misunderstand this. They think because they have the will, it is enough, and that now they are able to do. This is not so. The new will is a permanent gift, an attribute of the new nature. The power to do is not a permanent gift, but must be each moment received from the Holy Spirit. It is the man who is conscious of his own impotence as a believer who will learn that by the Holy Spirit he can live a holy life. This man is on the brink of that great deliverance; the way has been prepared for the glorious eighth chapter. I now ask this solemn question: Where are you living? Is it with you, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me?" with now and then a little experience of the power of the Holy Spirit? or is it, "I thank God through Jesus Christ! The law of the Spirit hath set me free from the law of sin and of death"?
What the Holy Spirit does is to give the victory. "If ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the flesh, ye shall live." It is the Holy Ghost who does this the third Person of the Godhead. He it is who, when the heart is opened wide to receive Him, comes in and reigns there, and mortifies the deeds of the body, day by day, hour by hour, and moment by moment.
I want to bring this to a point. Remember, dear friend, what we need is to come to decision and action. There are in Scripture two very different sorts of Christians. The Bible speaks in Romans, Corinthians and Galatians about yielding to the flesh; and that is the life of tens of thousands of believers. All their lack of joy in the Holy Ghost, and their lack of the liberty He gives, is just owing to the flesh. The Spirit is within them, but the flesh rules the life. To be led by the Spirit of God is what they need. Would God that I could make every child of His realize what it means that the everlasting God has given His dear Son, Christ Jesus, to watch over you every day, and that what you have to do is to trust; and that the work of the Holy Spirit is to enable you. every moment to remember Jesus, and to trust Him! The Spirit has come to keep the link with Him unbroken every moment. Praise God for the Holy Ghost! We are so accustomed to think of the Holy Spirit as a luxury, for special times, or for special ministers and men. But the Holy Spirit is necessary for every believer, every moment of the day. Praise God you have Him, and that He gives you the full experience of the deliverance in Christ, as He makes you free from the power of sin.
Who longs to have the power and the liberty of the Holy Spirit? Oh, brother, bow before God in one final cry of despair:
"O God, must I go on sinning this way forever? Who shall deliver me, O wretched man that I am! from the body of this death?"
Are you ready to sink before God in that cry and seek the power of Jesus to dwell and work in you? Are you ready to say: "I thank God through Jesus Christ"?
What good does it do that we go to church or attend conventions, that we study our Bibles and pray, unless our lives are filled with the Holy Spirit? That is what God wants; and nothing else will enable us to live a life of power and peace. You know that when a minister or parent is using the catechism, when a question is asked an answer is expected. Alas! how many Christians are content with the question put here: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" but never give the answer. Instead of answering, they are silent. Instead of saying: "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord," they are forever repeating the question without the answer. If you want the path to the full deliverance of Christ, and the liberty of the Spirit, the glorious liberty of the children of God, take it through the seventh chapter of Romans; and then say: "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord." Be not content to remain ever groaning, but say: "I, a wretched man, thank God, through Jesus Christ. Even though I do not see it all, I am going to praise God."
There is deliverance, there is the liberty of the Holy Spirit. The kingdom of God is "joy in the Holy Ghost."
| 2004/9/3 8:14||Profile|