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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A question about repentance and grace

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 Re:

Eli, it is very clear from your posts that you don't know me or understand me at all. You need to be careful because all liars will be cast into the lake of fire.

Quote:
Your statement reveals your ignorance. Of course God is displeased with sin, and of course God is pleased with righteousness.



Alan said that God is not pleased with repentance.

The Bible says that all of Heaven rejoices when sinners repent.

Who is right, Alan or the Bible?


Quote:
The issue is that YOU are unrighteous - you are a sinner.



I am a new Creature in Christ. The old has passed. The new has come. The Son has set me free. I am not a sinner anymore. The Bible calls Christians Saints.

If you are not a new creature in Christ, if you are still a sinner, you are not saved. Only saints are saved. All sinners are condemned.

Besides, if I am not under the law as a believer, how can I be a "sinner"? In your antinomian theology, believers cannot be sinners.

Quote:
'God is displeased with YOU and your so-called repentance which is no repentance at all: for you tell men to keep the commandments and you don't even do it yourself.



Actually, as a Christian I keep God's commandments.

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." 1 John 2:3

"And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments and do those things that are pleasing in his sight." 1 John 3:22

If you do not keep God's commandments, you do not know God. You CANNOT know God, because sin separates us from Him. If you do not keep God's commandments, you are not a Christian, you have not been saved or transformed by the power of Jesus Christ.

Quote:
You're a wicked law-breaker in God's sight. You are worse than that - you are defying God's glory by saying that you in your own self-righteousness do not fall short of it (Romans 3:23).



Actually, I am not righteous of myself. I am only righteous in my position and in my practice because of Jesus Christ. Through the atonement I am righteous in my position and through the work of the Holy Spirit I am righteous in my practice.

The problem is that God has placed you under obligation to His law, and you break His law and turn his grace into a licence to sin! God's grace saves us from breaking God's law. God's grace is not so that we can continue to break His law! You are a wicked law breaker and you need to repent or perish.

Quote:
You are lowering the standard of righteousness.



Love is the fulfillment of the law. If a person loves, they are perfectly keeping God's law. When a person is born again, they get a new heart. Their new heart is a heart of love, one that fulfills the law of God.

Quote:
You are calling God a liar who declared that by the deeds of law no flesh would be justified in His sight.



No man can be justified by the deeds of the law. The law cannot declare the guilty as innocent, because we have sinned. Justification by the deeds of the law is IMPOSSIBLE. We HAVE to be justified by God's grace! There is no way for the guilty to cease to deserve punishment.

We can be justified by God's grace and mercy, through Jesus Christ, if we repent of our sins and trust in Christ.

You are calling Jesus Christ a liar, who said you need to repent or perish.

You are calling God a liar, who said that the wicked needed to forsake their way in order to be pardoned.

Quote:
You are putting men in bondage and are an enemy of the cross.



It is you that are putting men in bondage and are an enemy of the cross! You are putting men in the bondage of sin, by telling them that they are not obligated to obey God's commandments. And you are an enemy of the cross by saying that we are not saved from the practice of sin through the cross!

Quote:
The issue is not whether God is against sin or not.



That is precisely the issue. You are saying that God is not against sin, God is against His own law! If God is against sin, God will not abrogate His law. If God is against sin, God would require everyone to obey His law.

Quote:
We affirm more than you that He is. He is so against sin that He does not accept anything but perfect righteousness - that which was exhibited by the Lord Jesus Christ alone -



That is right. If you do not follow Jesus Christ, you will go to hell. Nothing short of perfect obedience to God's law is acceptable. If you do not forsake ALL sin, you cannot have His grace and mercy.

Quote:
and that He punished sin at Calvary by slaying His own Son for sinners.



Jesus died for the whole world, providing a substitute for the penalty of hell, so that God can remit the penalty for those who repent of their sins and trust in Christ. If you do not repent of your sins, you will not receive the remission of sins. God will not remit your penalty, unless you both repent and believe.


Quote:
God is most assuredly against sin, and therefore you are in grave trouble unless you believe on the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.



Because God is against sin, you are in trouble with God, unless Jesus Christ takes away your sin. Unless Jesus Christ transforms you from a sinner to a saint, you are in trouble with God. Unless you are born again, unless you stop breaking God's law and begin to obey Him in newness of life, you will go to hell.

Quote:
You do not believe, as you assume you do. For "the law is not of faith", and you have not submitted to God, but are "going about to establish your own righteousness."



You have not submitted to God's method of making men righteous. You are trying to establish your own righteousness, an easy believism, forgiveness without repentance. You need to submit to God's righteousness. You need to submit to God's way of making sinners righteous, by repenting of their sins and trusting in Jesus Christ.

Quote:
I fear for you. May God have mercy on you and do to you as He did to Saul of Tarsus, that you too may see that you are "the chief of sinners".



I fear for you. I pray that you repent of your sins ust as Saul or Tarsus did, so that you can say with Paul that you are "free from sin" and have a conscience "void of offense". Unless you repent like Saul did and be born again, you cannot have God's forgiveness like Saul did.

 2009/6/30 16:08
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

[b]John 14:15[/b] [color=990000]If you love me, keep my commandments.[/color]

[b]Mat 22:36[/b] [color=990000]Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?
[b]:37[/b] Jesus said unto him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[b]:38[/b] This is the first and great commandment.
[b]:39[/b] And the second is like unto it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[b]:40[/b] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.[/color]
[b]This is the spirit of the law.[/b]

This is posible for all mankind.

Why is some one not attaining righteousness yet?
Because they are not seeking it by faith, but as it were by the works of the law (in ther words, by the letter of the law, or through the power of one's flesh).

For you are stumbling at that stumbling stone (Romans 9:31 -32), you must acknowledge Christ, which is your next step in order to have the victory over that which is vexing you, which is sin.

We are all bound to the law to live by the law to do it. However ,we are finding that the law is a difficult taskmaster to obey perfectly & consistently by the letter.

Until one puts their faith in & on Christ & what HE said & done (Galatians 3:10 & James 2:10) so that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in him/her through the spirit of he law, as all mankind should be walking [b]not[/b] after the flesh, but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4): Untill that, sin will always have dominion over you.

Knowing that Faith has works/fruit which prooves it t be real.
Knowing that salvation is not a thing, but a person, a relationship with the God through Christ; which relationship must be reciprocal.

Quote:
Eli_Barnabas wrote:

that you too may see that you are "the chief of sinners".

Paul wa not sayin that he was currently the "chief of sinners"

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for sinners, not for the rightous (1Tim 1:9).

If paul was saying that he was currently the "chief of sinners", then the law would be for him also.

Paul was a rightous man, and the law was not for him or chritians.

 2009/6/30 16:21Profile
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

I understand all that you have said here , and i have not said that Christians . Jesus is Light , the more light we recieve the more we are to walk in of this grace , but that does not mean we are being cleansed from more sin because Grace abounds more, it just means we are growing in jesus from glory to glory . Now the problem with many interpretations of this passage , and others , is that , people CHOOSE NOT TO BELIEVE THAT JESUS' BLOOD CLEANSES FROM ALL SIN . and ALL means ALL . its that simple . John is teaching on JUSTIFICATION in 1st. ch. of 1john1:8 not ANYTHING else. thanks for your post , Clint


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2009/6/30 19:15Profile
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

The unrighteous know , no shame . I have been a sinner and i am ashamed of my unbelief . That does not mean that i still need to have sin , because , Christ came to take away sin , and HE SUCCEEDED ! thank God ! . Why is it so hard to take into concideration all the passages of scripture about Being Holy and Perfect as God is Holy and perfect . BE YE , in the bible is a command from God Himself . He tells us to be holy and be perfect as he is . And this is attainable and also a command and a propmise of the Heavenly Father , IN THIS LIFE . Clint .


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2009/6/30 19:24Profile
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

Amen , let truth prevail , in all our ways !!


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2009/6/30 19:28Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
You need to be careful because all liars will be cast into the lake of fire


Friend, this is an unnecessary provocation. Please do not drop these types of remarks in the forum, do not aim them at a brother or sister you know nothing about. All of what is being discussed here is debatable, tomes of theological discourses have been written and promulgated that touch on these very concepts. Mature brethren are able to ruminate on these things without resorting to accusations and threatening each other with hell.

Thank you for your consideration.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2009/6/30 20:07Profile









 Re:

PaulWest,

Don't you think that these statements were way out of line? We should be able to discussion doctrine without these false personal attacks.

Quote:
The issue is that YOU are unrighteous - you are a sinner. God is displeased with YOU and your so-called repentance which is no repentance at all: for you tell men to keep the commandments and you don't even do it yourself. You're a wicked law-breaker in God's sight. You are worse than that - you are defying God's glory by saying that you in your own self-righteousness do not fall short of it (Romans 3:23). You are lowering the standard of righteousness. You are calling God a liar who declared that by the deeds of law no flesh would be justified in His sight. You are putting men in bondage and are an enemy of the cross.

I fear for you. May God have mercy on you and do to you as He did to Saul of Tarsus, that you too may see that you are "the chief of sinners".



He condemned me to hell, accused me of sin, accused me of lowering the standard, accused me of calling God a liar, said I was under God's wrath, ALL BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN REPENTANCE!

If this is the type of theology on these forums, I don't think I want to be a part of this community. I don't want to be falsely accused and attacked simply for believing in biblical repentance.

Are there any brethren here who believe in repentance? I know that Paul Washer, Ray Comfort, and David Wilkerson do and Leonard Ravenhill, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Finney, and others did. Is everyone on this forum antinomian? Does everyone believe that repentance is justification by works?

 2009/7/1 18:17
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37033
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

I believe there are many extreme view points being expressed in this thread. Regeneration is the work of God soley. Repentance is also a gift of God but also something that needs to be exercised by man's will. This is the Biblical view brothers and sisters, it involves both God and man.

The Calvinism / Arminian debates are extreme positions lets stick to the simplicity of the Word of God and see the world transformed by the Gospel.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2009/7/1 18:36Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

I think this thread and discussion has run its self to its end. I am locking this thread.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2009/7/1 18:36Profile





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