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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Why are Young People Leaving the Church?

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hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 640
Missouri

 Re: Going back to the topic (sort of)

The original post I believe was inspired by Ken Ham's new book "Already Gone: Why Your Kids Will Quit Church and What We Can Do to Stop It." I LOVE Ken Ham's ministry. I've been blessed by many of the videos that AIG puts out. I have to say, however, that I'm a little disappointed in this latest book. The statistics that Brit Beemer gathered are staggering and as far as that goes it's excellent. He included kids brought up in public, private, and home education. I guess where the disappointment comes is the minimal amount of space given to a solution.

I think they miss the heart of the problem. Sunday School should be seen as an aid to parents in their God given responsibility to bring up godly children. Instead it has taken the place of parents and is doing a terrible job. As a Sunday School teacher, and one who enjoyed it tremendously, the only qualification expected of me was: was I willing to volunteer. Willingness is extremely important but ability is every bit as important, maybe even more important.

Sunday School was originally formed to teach poor children, who didn't go to school, how to read. It was literally school on Sundays. The benefits were that as the Church supplied a free education they also were able to reach out to children and families with the Gospel. Concerns were raised at the time by people that Sunday School could potentially replace parents as the primary Biblical teachers of children.

The only notable paragraph that stood out to me in the book was this one:

"It's not just an issue of homeschooling; it is an issue of biblical home education. If our survey should teach you anything, it's that you can no longer depend on the Sunday school and youth ministries in your church to educate your kids in the things of God. In all honesty, it was never their responsibility in the first place.(This should have been their first clue that kids leaving the church in droves is not because of the failure of Sunday school, but the failure of the home. 'my opinion') This is your job; this is your responsibility; you need to step up to the plate and take charge."

I'm not for shutting down Sunday schools or youth ministries, though I am for shutting most of them down as they currently exist today. I do believe that they need to be put in their place. If we look honestly at these to cherished traditions we will admit that they are not a biblicaly appointed ministry, specifically anyway. At best they should be seen as an aid to parents to help raise their kids to be godly. Parents should also be heavily involved, the days of the 20yr old cool and hip youth minister who's more a youth than a minister need to disappear quickly from our churches. Sunday school teachers need to be qualified to teach the Bible and not the pablum that is doled out in the form of Sunday school material. In many places these two institutions just plain need to be shut down.

Just my opinion

[edit] In order to not sound like I'm totally downing the book I would say that it's got the beginnings of an excellent book but I don't believe that it was ready to be published yet. Hopefully they will print a revised version that is more than just statistical data. In response to Lyssa on page one, it's not a ploy to push homeschooling (I've read the book.). It's very balanced.


_________________
SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2009/6/19 13:57Profile









 Re: Dear Walter

when I read this:

Quote:
Neil, my response to you is the SAME as it has been from the BEGINNING of your entry on Sermonindex. It is not necessarily God that has access to your heart. You and I do not have the Holy Spirit without measure, like Christ did. We have it with measure. What you have quoted above, that God spoke quite clearly to you to speak out AGAINST what I posted was NOT FROM GOD. It was either from your Flesh or Satan.

I have quoted what God has to say about this matter through His Word. You would do well to rely on His Word, as well, and if you "hear" anything from "God", check it out with His Word before you make any foolish public statements, that go hand in hand with false prophecy, AND ACTUALLY OPPOSE HIS WORD.



I suddenly realize you are an [b]accuser, and inquistor[/b]....and that is not the Spirit of Messiah, it is the opposite, it is the spirit of anti-Messiah, as I did quote directly from Scripture.

Now what the folks reading this sad sordid exchange don't know is, that not only did you splay this venomous accusation against me on this public board, but you also chose to hector me in PM's with the same exact posts, what sort of spirit was propelling you to do that? The Holy Spirit?

I think not.

 2009/6/19 20:46









 Re:

Hello, Hulsey:

I have not read the book "Already Gone" yet, I just ordered it this morning.

It seems that the answer is going back to the Bible, starting with Genesis, starting in the beginning. That is the missing link within the body of Christ today--the supremacy of Scripture.

What follows is from the advertisment from the Volume 15, issue 6 1:1 answers update from Ken Ham:


This month a new book is being released entitled “Already Gone- Why your kids will quit church and what you can do to stop it” written by Ken Ham & Brit Beemer.


Why has America’s church lost an entire generation of believers?

If you look around your church today, two-thirds of the young people sitting in the pews have already left in their hearts; soon they will be gone for good. And it’s happening in the most solid “Bible-believing” churches.

The first scientific study of its kind reveals starting facts discovered though 20,000 phone calls and detailed surveys of a thousand 20-29 year olds. These young people used to attend evangelical churches on a regular basis, but have since walked away.

THE RESULTS ARE SHOCKING!

Those who regularly attend Sunday school are:

1. more likely to leave the church than those who do not.
2. more likely to believe that the Bible is less true.
3. more likely to defend that abortion and gay marriage should be legal
4. more likely to defend premarital sex.

Of those who no longer attend church, only 1% stopped attending because they didn’t like the music.

[b][color=990000]The single most misunderstood issue among those 20-29 year olds who left the church was the age of the earth![/color][/b]

[b][color=009900]From your history classes, you will recall that in 1517, a young monk, Martin Luther, boldly nailed 95 Theses on the church door in Wittenberg, Germany. He was calling the church back to the authority of the Bible and away from the opinions and traditions of fallible man.

Four years later, Luther stood before the emperor, princes, and others in the Bishop’s Palace in Worms, Germany, where he was told to recant his theses and books. The next day, after a long night of prayer and counsel, Luther famously replied that he would not recant unless it could be shown from the Scriptures that he was in error. He is then reported to have said:

“Here I stand; I can do no other. God help me. Amen”

For years, Ken Ham and his “Answers in Genesis” has been challenging the church to stand without compromise on the authority of God’s Word, beginning in Genesis. They have insisted that Christians should be like the Bereans in Acts 17:11: “They received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out what they were taught was the truth.[/color][/b]

If you are interested, you can order the book “Already Gone” here:

[url=www.answersbookstore.com]Already Gone- Why your kids will quit church and what you can do to stop it[/url]

Hulsey, Once I read it, I will post again to let you know if we both have the saem feeling about this book.

Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

hulsey wrote:
The original post I believe was inspired by Ken Ham's new book "Already Gone: Why Your Kids Will Quit Church and What We Can Do to Stop It." I LOVE Ken Ham's ministry. I've been blessed by many of the videos that AIG puts out. I have to say, however, that I'm a little disappointed in this latest book. The statistics that Brit Beemer gathered are staggering and as far as that goes it's excellent. He included kids brought up in public, private, and home education. I guess where the disappointment comes is the minimal amount of space given to a solution.

I think they miss the heart of the problem. Sunday School should be seen as an aid to parents in their God given responsibility to bring up godly children. Instead it has taken the place of parents and is doing a terrible job. As a Sunday School teacher, and one who enjoyed it tremendously, the only qualification expected of me was: was I willing to volunteer. Willingness is extremely important but ability is every bit as important, maybe even more important.

Sunday School was originally formed to teach poor children, who didn't go to school, how to read. It was literally school on Sundays. The benefits were that as the Church supplied a free education they also were able to reach out to children and families with the Gospel. Concerns were raised at the time by people that Sunday School could potentially replace parents as the primary Biblical teachers of children.

The only notable paragraph that stood out to me in the book was this one:

"It's not just an issue of homeschooling; it is an issue of biblical home education. If our survey should teach you anything, it's that you can no longer depend on the Sunday school and youth ministries in your church to educate your kids in the things of God. In all honesty, it was never their responsibility in the first place.(This should have been their first clue that kids leaving the church in droves is not because of the failure of Sunday school, but the failure of the home. 'my opinion') This is your job; this is your responsibility; you need to step up to the plate and take charge."

I'm not for shutting down Sunday schools or youth ministries, though I am for shutting most of them down as they currently exist today. I do believe that they need to be put in their place. If we look honestly at these to cherished traditions we will admit that they are not a biblicaly appointed ministry, specifically anyway. At best they should be seen as an aid to parents to help raise their kids to be godly. Parents should also be heavily involved, the days of the 20yr old cool and hip youth minister who's more a youth than a minister need to disappear quickly from our churches. Sunday school teachers need to be qualified to teach the Bible and not the pablum that is doled out in the form of Sunday school material. In many places these two institutions just plain need to be shut down.

Just my opinion

[edit] In order to not sound like I'm totally downing the book I would say that it's got the beginnings of an excellent book but I don't believe that it was ready to be published yet. Hopefully they will print a revised version that is more than just statistical data. In response to Lyssa on page one, it's not a ploy to push homeschooling (I've read the book.). It's very balanced.



 2009/6/20 11:57
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re: Why are Young People Leaving the Church?

the first thing that hapepens in the falling away process is APATHY , the the second is ANARCHY , then the third and final thing to falling away from God ,or it should be said falling away from the FEAR OF GOD , is APOSTACY . I know these three things are all the process of falling away , apathy , anarchy , and apostacy. Now on the training up a child in the way he should go ,thing . The best teaching i have come across on the meaning of this passage is from charles stanley ,from , Focus on the family . to train up a child in the way he should go , and when he is old he will not depart , means . First keep in mind the scripture where Jesus said that the lillies do not toil or spin , and yet solomon in all his splender was not clothed as beautiful as them , so putting on Christ and BEING who we are supposed to be as humans does not require any toiling or spinning on our part , only letting God kill us is required { crucified with Christ }. now the meaning of this passage is , " develope a thirst in your child , according to his own unique personality ,and when he is old he will not depart from it . Having a child to be thirsty for LIFE , for the life that God designed him to pursue and go after, which this is always in keeping with our own uniqueness. remember the TWO become one , in this salvation marriage. God does not put us aside but gives us each talents . So parents, and those in authority, are to DEVELOPE THE THIRST FOR LIFE in thier children, according to each way the child is supposed to go . this passage entails all the various relations that each person will have in Life and that the thirst for life, in them , if developed in each of us as children will lead us all the way through life and we will not depart from the developed thirts as long as the thirst that is developed is the right way for us and not someone elses selfish manipulated idea of who we are . I love the fact that we are all unique and that, by birth ,we ALL QUALIFY for being well able to please and Glorify God , and do this according to our individual personalities , talents and bents . Focus , for parents and gaurdians of children needs to be on the childs , way he should go and developing a thirst in that child to Go that way . Jesus said blessed are they that hunger and thirst for being right with Love [ God ] for they shall be filled . Filled with a good LIFE that noone in their right minds would ever depart from . peoples ideas of departure are probably much different than Gods > I personally have left 7 churches , but i have not left my developed thirst for the way i need to go and God will guide me , and save me to the utmost , because i know that i have the ernest of my inheritance . my main point is training a child is simply , causing the child to be thirsty for finding his own way of being all that God calls him to be , ansd this is always in keeping with the childs own calling , and this calling comes about naturally when the thirst for it is there.


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2009/6/22 18:34Profile









 Re:

Quote:
All seriousness aside... We'll save this one for another discussion!! And just for you (all in good fun), here's my Sunday smiley faces.... LOL

God bless you Krispy!



Lysa... thank you thank you thank you! Re-reading what I posted I was afraid you would think I was mad and ranting, when in fact I wasn't!

Love ya, sister!

Krispy

 2009/6/23 16:21
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re: Creation, Evolution and God In Science Night 7/9

Here is some info that is pertinent to this thread!! I am not wanting to resurrect this thread but I did not know if this warranted a "new" thread...

Tomorrow night: Thursday, July 9th
Paul Crouch, Jr. hosts [b][i]"Creation, Evolution and God In Science Night"[/i] with Dr. Hugh Ross[/b], Dr. Carl Baugh, Eric Hovind, Professor John Bloom and Sean McDowell in Costa Mesa, CA.

Praise The Lord airs at 7:00 PM Pacific Time (GMT -8:00) on a TBN station near you!
(I live in Eastern Time so it will air Thursday night here at 10 PM and will repeat the episode the next night; Friday night (7/10) at 5:00 PM)

__________
Lysa here... I thought for those who had not heard Dr. Ross before that they can see him and the others in action and see for yourself.

God bless you!!!


_________________
Lisa

 2009/7/8 5:45Profile









 Re:

Young people are leaving the church, for the same reason old people are.

Jer 10:21 For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered. (This scattering is happening now by the way)

Jer 12:10 Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.

Jer 23:1-2 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. 2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

Eze 34:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

The Lord is delivering his flock from those who were to have taught them.

Old Joe

 2009/7/8 13:22









 Re:




To Lysa:

Hugh Ross (AKA Huge Loss) is on the opposite side of the issue. He does not believe the explanation of Genesis, provided by God, that was given to Moses, that is found in the Bible. Hugh has found it necessary to add billions of years to the time frame of creation,and at the same time eliminate the glory, and the majesty and the power of our Creator God.

Hugh is the enemy of the Gospel and Jesus Christ. He has almost single handedly done his very best to replace the literal 6 days of creation with billions of years. Yet, the Biblical account states that Jesus Christ[b][color=990000] spoke all things into existence out of nothing. (Hebrews 11:3)


The truth of recent creation, combined with the truth of the global cataclysmic flood in the days of Noah, is the real key to the true scientific understanding of earth history. The doctrine of special creation pervades all the rest of the Bible and is the real foundation of all other truth, especially including all the great doctrines of the Christian faith. The evolutionary concept of history, on the other hand, is Satan’s greatest weapon in his long war against God, serving as the root of every false philosophy and evil practice known to man. [/color][/b]

[b]Please, do not expose yourselves, or your children to the wiles of Hugh Ross.[/b]

Sincerely,




Quote:

Lysa wrote:
Here is some info that is pertinent to this thread!! I am not wanting to resurrect this thread but I did not know if this warranted a "new" thread...

Tomorrow night: Thursday, July 9th
Paul Crouch, Jr. hosts [b][i]"Creation, Evolution and God In Science Night"[/i] with Dr. Hugh Ross[/b], Dr. Carl Baugh, Eric Hovind, Professor John Bloom and Sean McDowell in Costa Mesa, CA.

Praise The Lord airs at 7:00 PM Pacific Time (GMT -8:00) on a TBN station near you!
(I live in Eastern Time so it will air Thursday night here at 10 PM and will repeat the episode the next night; Friday night (7/10) at 5:00 PM)

__________
Lysa here... I thought for those who had not heard Dr. Ross before that they can see him and the others in action and see for yourself.

God bless you!!!

 2009/7/8 22:28





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