SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Are YOU 100% Sure YOU Are Saved?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )
PosterThread
repentcanada
Member



Joined: 2005/5/9
Posts: 659


 Are YOU 100% Sure YOU Are Saved?

Can you lose your salvation?

If you say yes to that question, how can you say you are trusting in Christ alone for salvation?

Are you not therefore trusting in your good works to secure your salvation?

How can you be saved believing and trusting in that?

 2009/6/7 19:28Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: Are YOU 100% Sure You Are Saved?

Quote:
repentcanada wrote:
can you lose your salvation?

if you say yes to that question, how can you say you are trusting in Christ alone for salvation?

are you not therefore trusting in your good works to secure your salvation?

how can you be saved believing and trusting in that?

Can you lose your mariage (divorce)?

If you say yes to that question, how can you say you are trusting in true Love alone for your relationship?

Are you not therefore trusting in your proof of your love for your wife (works) to secure your mariage?

How can you be maried believing and trusting in that?

 2009/6/7 20:26Profile









 Re: Are YOU 100% Sure You Are Saved?

Actually, yes would be most people's answer not because of the answers you've supplied but because they see themselves as unfit to begin with. It wouldn't be a question of works or maintaining their salvation, it would be simply "I am not worthy" and if any of these should slip up in anyway shape or form the thought of losing their salvation is of paramount concern. Many don't know what Jesus did on the cross. I know way too many Christians who think this way. Most of the damage has been done by preachers who kept drilling it into people that they "are not worthy". So they have a "I am not worthy" complex. Terrible bondage to be in of always wondering if your saved or not.

 2009/6/7 20:35
repentcanada
Member



Joined: 2005/5/9
Posts: 659


 Re:

Logic I believe you are being illogical. Marriage and salvation are completely different.


Jesus Christ said in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

He said I have everlasting life. To believe that I will not inherit that one day is saying that Christ lied.


The reason I posted this is because of the debate over eternal security. If someone believes you can lose your salvation, how can they themselves be saved? How can they say they believe in Christ?

It's a simple thought, but it has radical implications.


Look - i know this is sermon index with the sermons of many who believe that people who have been born again can lose their salvation (they though themselves believe THEY will never lose THEIRS - isn't that believing in their own works?), but I wish to question that and believe that is a heretical belief.

 2009/6/8 22:53Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Are YOU 100% Sure YOU Are Saved?

Gosh brother. You seem to have a very angry tone in your rather loaded line of questioning. Perhaps I should question your salvation in the same manner you question the salvation of those who believe other than you do? When one possess Biblical saving faith, one has come to an end of self. Have you truly done such? Perhaps you have, but it seems your old self is ruling here on the boards.

Just a brotherly observation.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2009/6/8 23:13Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
repentcanada wrote:
Logic I believe you are being illogical. Marriage and salvation are completely different.

It is VERY logical:
Salvation is not a "thing" but a Person!

The atonement does not save anyone. Jesus is our salvation, our relationship with Him is what saves us; what HE did (atone for our sins) only makes it posible for us to have this "saving" relationship with the Father through His son (John 17:3).

Quote:
He said I have everlasting life. To believe that I will not inherit that one day is saying that Christ lied.

What is everlasting life?
[b]John 17:3[/b] [color=990000]Now this is everlasting life: that they shall be knowing You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent.[/color]

If one walks away from HIM (apostatize), he will not have eternal life.
Strongs Greek #647:
αποστάσιον = apostasion = divorcement
We get the word "apostasy" from this word.

Quote:
The reason I posted this is because of the debate over eternal security. If someone believes you can lose your salvation, how can they themselves be saved? How can they say they believe in Christ?

Because salvation is a relationship between two people, God and you/me.

Fact is, many people have trusted Christ unto salvation, but after a while, departed from the faith because of offence, damnable herasy...etc...

Quote:
Look - i know this is sermon index with the sermons of many who believe that people who have been born again can lose their salvation (they though themselves believe THEY will never lose THEIRS - isn't that believing in their own works?),

Faith w/out works (fruit) is dead!
[b]John 15:2a[/b] [color=990000]Every branch in me that bears not fruit[/color] (works) [color=990000]He takes away.[.color]

John 15:2-7

Quote:
but I wish to question that and believe that is a heretical belief.

It is not a a heretical belief if you understand what salvation truly is.

 2009/6/8 23:38Profile
repentcanada
Member



Joined: 2005/5/9
Posts: 659


 Re:

LOL - not angry at all and I am not even sure where you get that "discernment" from. My response had no capital letters or exclamation marks. Just asking a few simple questions here on SI that I believe are beneficial.

I am not acting in my old man here. And as well I want to say this - this is the first post I have started in a long time of any real doctrinal stance. If this is something that makes people angry, I will take that in consideration and bow out of writing anything on any serious level.

Logical - how can any believer be sure of their salvation then? How can any of us be sure we are born again?

I have witnessed others get railroaded from here on SI, and hope this isn't going to be the case with myself.

ps - when I wrote "heretical belief" I do not mean "lost" or "damned". I may have used the wrong choice of words, and rather than go back and delete my previous words I will say this.

 2009/6/8 23:40Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

This argument usually boils down to one side saying someone can lose their salvation if they return to and continue in willful sin and the other side saying that the person was never truly saved in the first place. Personally I am comfortable with either position. The third position is when the eternal security position degenerates into a "greasy grace" or "grace as a license to sin" position which states that someone can live in continual willful sin and still be saved because at one time they were saved and can not lose their salvation no matter what they do. This is the position that I have a problem with and believe is un-scriptural and gives people a false sense of security.

Here are a few scriptures for your consideration that talk about enduring to the end and about people who turn back to willful sin.


1. Matthew 10:22 - All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

2. Matthew 24:9-13 - "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved."

3. Romans 11:20-22 - But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

4. 1 Corinthians 9:27 - No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

5. 1 Timothy 4:1 - The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

6. Hebrews 3:12-14 - See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called "Today," so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

7. 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

8. 2 Peter 3:17 - Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

9. Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

10. Jud 1:3-6 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. (4) For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. (5) Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. (6) And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

11. Matthew 7:19-23 - "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'”

12. Heb 10:26-31 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, (27) but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. (28) Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. (29) How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? (30) For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." (31) It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


God bless,

Patrick
www.jonahproject.org



_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2009/6/8 23:47Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Christisking wrote:
This argument usually boils down to one side saying someone can lose their salvation if they return to and continue in willful sin and the other side saying that the person was never truly saved in the first place.

I would add being decieved into d@mnable herasy.

 2009/6/8 23:53Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
This argument usually boils down to one side saying someone can lose their salvation if they return to and continue in willful sin and the other side saying that the person was never truly saved in the first place. Personally I am comfortable with either position. The third position is when the eternal security position degenerates into a "greasy grace" or "grace as a license to sin" position which states that someone can live in continual willful sin and still be saved because at one time they were saved and can not lose their salvation no matter what they do. This is the position that I have a problem with and believe is un-scriptural and gives people a false sense of security.



I think this is a reasonable summary of things. I think our example of faith is clearly Abraham. our Lord pretty much summarizes it I think;

[color=000066]They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, [u]If[/u] ye were Abraham's children, [u]ye would do the works of Abraham[/u]. (John 8)[/color]


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/6/8 23:58Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy