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 Re: What the reformers forgot

When being critical of 'the reformers', let's remember that the RCC did not take their resistance lightly. Literally millions - a third of the population of Germany alone (the only statistic I can remember) - were wiped out in the so-called 'counterReformation'. That's a bigger number than any more recently recorded genocide apart from the Holocaust. Wylie's description of the torture chambers at Nuremburg, centuries after (we hope) they last were used, is terrifying, and it is testament to the power of God to keep in perfect peace to the end, that so many people died there. Psalms 116:15 No doubt many beautiful writings were also destroyed for ever, during this era.

 2009/6/9 7:00
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4801


 Re:

Sis wrote:

Quote:
When being critical of 'the reformers', let's remember that the RCC did not take their resistance lightly.



This sentiment is appealing to the masses. This reminds me of this example given to us in Scripture so that we might not commit the same transgression...

1Sa 15:10 Now the word of the LORD came to Samuel, saying,

1Sa 15:11 "I greatly regret that I have set up Saul [as] king, for he has turned back from following Me, and has not performed My commandments." And it grieved Samuel, and he cried out to the LORD all night.

1Sa 15:12 So when Samuel rose early in the morning to meet Saul, it was told Samuel, saying, "Saul went to Carmel, and indeed, he set up a monument for himself; and he has gone on around, passed by, and gone down to Gilgal."

1Sa 15:13 Then Samuel went to Saul, and Saul said to him, "Blessed [are] you of the LORD! I have performed the commandment of the LORD."

1Sa 15:14 But Samuel said, "What then [is] this bleating of the sheep in my ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?"

1Sa 15:15 And Saul said, "They have brought them from the Amalekites; for the people spared the best of the sheep and the oxen, to sacrifice to the LORD your God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed."

1Sa 15:16 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Be quiet! And I will tell you what the LORD said to me last night." And he said to him, "Speak on."

1Sa 15:17 So Samuel said, "When you [were] little in your own eyes, [were] you not head of the tribes of Israel? And did not the LORD anoint you king over Israel?

1Sa 15:18 Now the LORD sent you on a mission, and said, 'Go, and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are consumed.'

1Sa 15:19 Why then did you not obey the voice of the LORD? Why did you swoop down on the spoil, and do evil in the sight of the LORD?"

1Sa 15:20 And Saul said to Samuel, "But I have obeyed the voice of the LORD, and gone on the mission on which the LORD sent me, and brought back Agag king of Amalek; I have utterly destroyed the Amalekites.

1Sa 15:21 But the people took of the plunder, sheep and oxen, the best of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice to the LORD your God in Gilgal."

1Sa 15:22 So Samuel said: "Has the LORD [as great] delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, As in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, [And] to heed than the fat of rams.

1Sa 15:23 For rebellion [is as] the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness [is as] iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from [being] king."
...............................................

Saul did not go far enough. He chose to not obey the word of God in favor of the world's ways.

There were faithful men in the reformation. Conrad Grebel was one of those who chose to allow Scripture to be the means by which one discerns between good and evil.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2009/6/9 8:47Profile









 Re: The Very Words of God




Saints!

What did the Reformers bring to us, that we should all be proud of? The very living, Spirit Breathed Word of God. They rejected the Catholic Bible, and instead used the text found in the believing Church since the beginning, the Received Text, the Textus Receptus.

Sincerely,

Walter

 2009/6/9 11:46
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4801


 Re:

Brother Walter wrote:

Quote:
What did the Reformers bring to us, that we should all be proud of? The very living, Spirit Breathed Word of God. They rejected the Catholic Bible, and instead used the text found in the believing Church since the beginning, the Received Text, the Textus Receptus.



1Pe 1:24 because "All flesh [is] as grass, And all the glory of man [fn] as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, And its flower falls away,

1Pe 1:25 But the word of the LORD endures forever." [fn] Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

The Gutenberg printing press and William Tyndale were used well by God to sow the seeds of His word.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2009/6/9 12:45Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:
The bottom line is; there are two kinds of christianity in this world today. One is called Patristic Christianity which bases it doctrines on the foundations of the Early Church fathers. And then there is the Apostolic Christianity whose base is founded on the Holy Scriptures. Calvin and Luther are men who fall into the Patristic Christianity.



The following is an excerpt from one of the multitudes of sites, sermons, teachings and histories that believe otherwise:

According to Calvin, the Bible specified the nature of theology and of any human institutions. Thus, his statements on doctrine began and ended in Scripture, although he frequently cited the church fathers and important medieval Catholic thinkers. He sought to minimize speculation on divine matters and instead to draw on the Word of God. He also urged the church to recover its original vitality and purity. [url=http://www.island-of-freedom.com/CALVIN.HTM]Source[/url]


_________________
TJ

 2009/6/9 19:07Profile









 Re: What the reformers forgot

Hi Jeff,

By now, you must have realised how slow I am on the uptake at times. This time, while I understand the example you gave of Saul not going 'far enough', I have no idea how that relates to your quote of me, about a third of the German population falling to the counterReformation. I had said:

Quote:
When being critical of 'the reformers', let's remember that the RCC did not take their resistance lightly.

You said
This sentiment is appealing to the masses.

What is 'sentiment'al about it, and how is it 'appealing' (to anyone)?

You're correct that I was alluding to the temptation a (protesting) Christian might feel, towards denying Christ, but don't you think the RCC went [i][b]too[/i][/b] far?

 2009/6/10 7:26





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