I believe the brother was telling us to read Romans 8:29-30 not quoting the 29th verse. I was raised in the SBC in the mid TN area and works were preached a lot more than grace. I found myself a lost church member that had made a profession because of the fear of hell and not because of my sin against a Holy God. I had no understanding of the vicarious atoning work of Christ at all. Fear moved me. God regenerated me and I experienced grace in my life and am now still. We were predestined unto good works that we should walk in them. There is no room in the Doctrines of Grace or as one used "calvinism" for a believer to just set back and say what will be will be. That is fatalism. I do not believe in fate I believe in God. Noah did not say well God said to build an ark yet where is the wood. He moved with fear(reverence)in the preparing of an ark for the saving of his household. God decreed it I believe it and that settles it, but there is a thing that people so embedded in calvinism forget so easily, responsibility. God is Sovereign yet man is responsible. God will not believe for you. Faith is the evidence of this salvation that is not seen but makes manifest the operation of God that has happened within. I am a "5 point calvinists" but I do not believe that we are without responsibilities. They shall see our good work and glorify the Father that is our reward that God's purpose in Christ might be exalted. He WORKS in us both to will and do after His own good pleasure. Faith without works is dead friend.
I find it wonderfully strange that this showed up in my in-box today, June 8, 2009, the day you proposed this topic.[b]June 8 - The Lord My Portion by Watchman Nee[/b]"But watch ye at every season, making supplication, that ye may prevail to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." [b]Luke 21.36[/b]. The Lord distinctly promises that the church may escape the Great Tribulation and stand before the Son of manThis no doubt refers to rapture. Nevertheless, there is a condition involved. Not for all who are simply born again, but for those born-again ones who watch and pray. That ye may prevailIf you watch and pray, you may prevail. Hence the promise is given to those who do these things. Does everyone in the whole church watch and pray? Let us pay attention to this. (just had to post this)
Thank you JoanM for your post.I believe this with all my heart. I stated a post a while back of the danger of not looking for the rapture before the great tribulation.It makes no matter to me how many preachers on SI or believers who believe that the church must go through the great tribulation before the rapture, they do not discourage me, for I have seen and experienced the Lord mightily in my Life.I will continually watch and pray. I don't believe everyone who has been born of God will go in the rapture before the great tribulation, but I believe we must watch and pray and be filled with the Holy Spirit if we will be a part of the faithful bride who does escape.I believe in heeding the warnings of Jesus.Blessings to all!
Part of the faithful bride?2Ti 2:11 [It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]: 2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us: 2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 2Ti 2:14 Of these things put [them] in remembrance, charging [them] before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, [but] to the subverting of the hearers. The bride is the Body of Christ is it not? I am asking.If the bride is the body of Christ do we, as in his death which we partook, not partake in His faith? So therefore how can one have been more faithful (trusting or loyal) than the other seeing that we are made into one body, that being Christ. Are we not in this vital union not to be plucked out? Do we then seperate that which God has joined together at the "rapture"?Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us]; Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace; Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. This act of God was consumated at the cross. So do we seperate those which are in Christ because of a deed that is shown stronger by one more than another? What about the babes in Christ? A lot of people believe the Spirit will be taken away during the Great Tribulation. During this time the jews are awaken out of their slumber but by what means, Works..? Would this not be taking a step back considering that righteousness never came by the Law because if had then Christ is dead in vain? Has the Spirit vacated His office during this time? If there are some left behind how are they to make due without the Comforter that Christ has promised the believer? Will there not be preaching during this time? How will the preachers haqve an unction will it be as the Old Testament and the Spirit moves only on certain people for a time? Just some questions that I would like some thoughts on. I was a pre-trib at one time but now I really do not know what I am concerning escatology. I guess closer to amillennialism now.We are to watch and pray yes, but how? Look up toward the sky every waking moment (I am not being sarcastic). Is it not the regenerates desire to see Christ as He is and be with Him as the ages roll? Did not one say in the writ I will not be satisfied until I awake in His likeness. That is how I watch and pray, Looking forward to when our redemption is complete in Him and we are with Him. Do I spend everyday every minute looking around every corner for Him? No. I am patiently waiting for the return of my dear Saviour because I believed His word when He said he would return and i look forward anxiously with all my being to see Him face to face. We do not need to lay a yoke of bondage on our fellows in the Way with us by saying we are not doing enough. If all this was by our doing and doing then we would be the worst sort of devils not to go all in and stand on every street corner with all our monies gone to the cause of Christ. We would be living on the streets and having nothing ourselves but everything for the cause. No lights, no food, no shelter, and no family for they take away from the cause. I am not saying that we will not have good works they were before ordained that we should walk in them. We were predestinated to be conformed like unto Christ.
Are you guys thinking salvation and rapture are the same thing?
No I do not but the way it is put that the faithful bride is the one that is raptured sounds like a seperation of the bride. There is only one bride, one body, one faith, and one baptism, and this all has happened because of one God.