| Re: |
Why do pro-life organizations and pro-life activists feel like they have to denounce this murder? WHY? Why can't they just be silent.
Why doesn't someone tell the abortion clinics and murderous doctors to denounce what they do?
It seems very hypocritical to me. Do you think Jesus Christ would be apologetic? Or do you think he would be silent? (Obviously he wouldn't be murderous)
| 2009/6/1 22:49||Profile|
| Re: |
I just want to add to the thread that the article I posted a link to was not intended to refute MC's post. I simply hit the reply button on the last post.
On a personal note, I am very deeply saddened by this event. It is tragic on many many levels.
| 2009/6/1 23:11||Profile|
| Re: if a country sins against me|
If you want an honest answer I would probably die trying to save those children .However I do not see this issue in the same light .If my people would humble them selves and pray and turn from their wicked ways then would I hear from heaven and heal their land . The Gov. will have all they need to pass the laws they need to legally persecute the saints. Saints it is definitely time to fill your jars with the oil of the Holy Spirit. If Gods people are not humble and do not want to pray, Circumstance is always a good teacher.
Ezekiel 14:12-14 (New International Version)
12 The word of the LORD came to me: 13 "Son of man, if a country sins against me by being unfaithful and I stretch out my hand against it to cut off its food supply and send famine upon it and kill its men and their animals, 14 even if these three menNoah, Daniel [a] and Jobwere in it, they could save only themselves by their righteousness, declares the Sovereign LORD.
| 2009/6/1 23:12|
| Re: |
It is tragic on many many levels.
For what it's worth, my post was a personal reaction to this thing. It may be that my comments seemed obvious to most, and even a little self-aggrandizing to some, I can only say that most of the mistakes I've made in life are the result of me abandoning my principles due to misguided loyalties.
God has authorized the use of sword to the state, not to vigilantes,...as I read Romans 13:4.
| 2009/6/2 1:24||Profile|
| Re: |
"Why do pro-life organizations and pro-life activists feel like they have to denounce this murder? WHY? Why can't they just be silent.
Why doesn't someone tell the abortion clinics and murderous doctors to denounce??" repentcanada
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. If you're pro-life you're PRO-LIFE. What kind of Christian should denounce murder then stay silent on murder? What kind of Christian should denounce sin then stay silent on sin??? That's what the secular world does so well. Are we not peculiar??
In general, we seem to be almost justifying in terms of degrees when the Bible states murder is murder... sin is sin. Herod killed how many first borns?? Yet did Jesus engage in vigilante justice with him?? I'm sure He could have unshackled himself and pierced Herod with a sword. But He left the ultimate details of Herod's gruesome, worm-riddled, death to His Father. "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. Romans 12:18-20
Diedrick Bonhoeffer tried to kill Hitler. He failed. Why? Why would God allow this as obviously Hitler subsequently killed more??? I don't know, but I have to trust that God is sovereign and knows what he's doing.
I say that as Christians we need to stay consistent. Some sins may be more haenous than others but we cannot justify or look away from any crimes against God. The doctor lived by the sword and evidently knew he could eventually die by it. He took his chances. There are no hero's here yet some will dementedly treat these men like one. Satan knows this. This is his game.
I believe God tests His church in different ways. Are we going to denounce all murder as murder or pick and choose which sin to denounce overtly while staying silent on others?
Judgment begins with us. We must speak the truth but I think if we spent more time in the prayer closet than in flesh driven activism and politics we may have been able turn the tables on abortion. But today's church seems to be much too busy.
IS OUR FIGHT WITH FLESH AND BLOOD?
| 2009/6/2 7:45|
| Re: |
good word ccrider, i believe abortion is an abomination, but the way most go about this in politics and in demonstrations is not the way the Lord went.
Let us follow his example and leave the judgment for God, he will do right
the kingdom of heaven will be full of children, probably more children then adults when thinking how many have died young and at birth throughout the ages.
The murderers will all be in hell.
let us fight with the right battle
| 2009/6/2 8:20||Profile|
| Re: |
I understand your lament...your concern.
What has the church done? The church you are speaking of here is a mere social club that calls itself 'church'. The body of Christ does oppose it.
So what can one do when you see a body murdering, like Tiller? We have one of two options: do as this fellow did who killed Tiller, OR we can obey the law and wait for God to take control. Unfortunately, this kind of killing is legal, hence our physical limitations in interfering.
Yes, I know where you are coming from and I sympathize. I have worked with ladies who were considering abortions and I promise you, you are not battling wits but wills - a will determined to do what she wants at the expense of the life of another. And this will is empowered by the enemy of souls, known as the Devil.
Brother, we are living in an age of utter, extreme selfishness. "I do as I want"; "I want my best life NOW"; "I want this, that and if you have one, I want one, too, or I am going to take yours!"; "I deserve to be happy" (ever hear that one?). There is no sense of selflessness, of sacrifice for another, least of all for a spouse and maybe your children. A person is to live for another, to assist him to be his best (my job as a wife). All society thinks about is "ME", "MY comfort", "My desires.."; it is so selfish and it effects theology, philosophy of life, relationships, you name it. And why is it so popular? because there is money to be made from it and people are following this pied piper and woe on you if you cry out to them!
Now I will quit my rant...
| 2009/6/2 9:38||Profile|
| Re: |
also i think this age has fooled us and brainwashed us from day one through tv and schools ect to make us strive for succsess, so we can have the car, the house, and the rest, so we have to work hard, and in this strife to make it, the american dream, or the consumer dream we been fooled to belive that family is a burden, many children makes less time for me and my desires and my plans. So the easy way is to kill them before they become a burden.
of course all this is a lie annd a deception, the truth is children are a blessing and gift from God.
but since we dont want what God wants we live like we want to and we pursue what we believe is good, we need this education so we can get that job so we can pay that costly payments, and in all this we lose time to spend with our family and we burn ourself out so we have no time for God or serve in the church ect ect.
we do need to work and maybe an education also, but i am convinced we could do with far less then we have been fooled to believe we "need" to be happy.
God bless those families that will go for 7, 9, 10 , 12 children, This is a great blessing and a great wonderful thing. God help us see.
| 2009/6/2 9:48||Profile|
| Re: |
These are difficult and challenging times we are living in.
As Christians, none of us are happy when someone dies, no matter who they are(Eze 33:11) - except we believe that they have gone to be with the Lord(Ps 116:15). And we certainly would not want to take the law into our own hands at all.
With the way things can be portrayed and scrutinised with the media and mass information, it can seem like it is very easy for the worst things to be portrayed about us as Christians today. And then those things that we would want others to know about us, to be overlooked, or never heard of. And part of a measure of suffering for us in this world may be that our own love and sacrifice may not be easily noticed or recogised by others.
May we be able to help and encourage each other daily in the days ahead to persevere in true love and goodness(Heb 10:24).
A few days ago, a very young girl was attacked here in the city and the attack was appearantly very brutal. A description was given of the man and by the evening rush hour yesturday he had been apprehened.
On the bus ride home, as these things were developing, a few women sitting in the back of the bus were talking about the attack. And they were understandably upset. Very upset.
But going beyond outrage and grief over a terrible crime like that, these women as they talked were describing in brutal and graphic terms what they thought should be done to the man. The language was violent and brutal.
As the news broke that the man was apprehened, one of them began to give a description of the story as it was being told. Appearantly a mob had caught the man and severely beat him so that he was taken to the hospital. The conversation continued among the women with the same vigour as before. And for some time onward. As I caught a connecting bus a man on the next bus was talking about the same thing.
And then this morning as we were driving through the city on the job, I happened to look down and see a newspaper that someone had or was on the ground, and I saw the headline that talked about vigilante justice with a picture on the front page that in the short time I had to glance at it, looked like chaos.
This world can be so vicious and cruel. And sometimes it wants justice. Sometimes we want justice.
But when we think of the justice of God. We tremble. And we know that we need God's mercy.
Christopher Joel Dandrow
| 2009/6/3 21:03||Profile|