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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 OT Born Again Example

Here is an example of OT Scripture which reveals the mystery spoken of in the NT.

Job 33:25 His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:

Job 33:26 He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness.


In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2009/5/27 19:53Profile
Vader
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 16


 Re: OT Born Again Example

And your question is.....???? please explain

 2009/5/27 20:06Profile
RevBenjamin
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Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


 Re: OT Born Again Example

Rookie,

Colossians 1 tells us what the Mystery is. It is Christ in you, the hope of [i][b][color=990000]GLORY[/color][/b][/i].

The Spirit of the Life of Christ was not available in the OT. The Spirit o the life of Christ is the risen Christ.

Your scripture of Job 33:25 and Job 33:26 has nothing to do with the Mystery.

Paul tells us the Mystery was not revealed in the OT.

You see, the Mystery of Christ in you is the Mystery that we are begotten sons through Jesus Christ, and will be Glorified together with Christ. We are told we are flesh of His Flesh and Bone of His Bone. Paul also tells us more about this Mystery in Ephesians 5.

When we have been Completely redeemed and Glorified together with Christ, we will be with Him. Also we don't know what we will be but we know that we will be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. If His flesh is fresher than a child's...I suppose ours will be too. But as for now, our outer man is perishing, and it's our inward man that is being renewed day by day. Our inward man is not our flesh being made over, but crucified with Christ.



Keep studying!

Blessings,
R.G. Benjamin

 2009/5/27 20:44Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Benjamin wrote:



Quote:
Your scripture of Job 33:25 and Job 33:26 has nothing to do with the Mystery.



If one were to read Job chapter 33 in light of the NT one would clearly see the gospel.

Brother Benjamin what do you hear spoken in this section of Scripture Job 33:25-26?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2009/5/27 22:11Profile
RevBenjamin
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Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


 Re:

Jeff, What I hear is one of the friends of Job speaking. However this speaker accuses Job of wickedness. The end of Job, God speaks, and accuses all but Job of not speaking the truth.

Please tell me exactly what these verses mean to you? Are you saying that the Mystery is that your flesh will be softer than a baby's bottom and with that God will answer your prayers?

A rather shallow understanding of salvation isn't it?

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

 2009/5/28 8:03Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Benjamin wrote:

Quote:
Jeff, What I hear is one of the friends of Job speaking. However this speaker accuses Job of wickedness. The end of Job, God speaks, and accuses all but Job of not speaking the truth.



If you read the Scriptures in Job you will find that Elihu is not Job's accuser. Elihu in not one of the three that God condemns for their words. I exhort you to be a berean and search the Scriptures to see if what I am saying is true.

What does Scripture say of Elihu's words?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2009/5/28 8:32Profile
RevBenjamin
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Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


 Re:

Jeff, Let's first establish the book of Job is about suffering. Next, lets make clear, in our Christian life we are to Count it all Joy James 1.


And did God in the end Praise Elihu? NO!

With that, it is only in these ater years that I've begun to understand there is an even worse kind of false “friend”. These are the ones I refer to as the “friends of Job”. I believe that most of us have experienced them. The sooner we come to understand the danger that their false teaching or interference, the happier we will all be.

These are the folks who claim to have somehow “figured God out” as though the Christian life were some kind of puzzle. They act as though following the Lord involves living out a formula. They fail to speak of the fact that those who embrace His way will walk, as He did, along a rugged road. After all, we follow in the footsteps of a Savior who’s greatest act of Love, His self giving embrace of death on a Cross, was deemed by most who witnessed it to be His complete failure.

These “friends of Job” seem to be everywhere these days. They fill the pulpits of some of Americas fastest growing “mega churches”. They flood our airwaves with their claims of health, wealth, prosperity and blessing for those who “really” get the Gospel, at least the Gospel they preach. Sometimes it is whatPaul warned of as “another gospel” (Gal. 1:6), which reduces our walk with God to following a formula.

These “friends of Job” are quick to wrongly judge when difficulties come into the lives of good people, as they inevitably will, or want to be the Holy Spirit of conscience in yours, distracting you from hearing God's voice specifically speaking to you.

The Book of Job is one of the treasures of the Bible. It reveals a truth about authentic spirituality to every age. The background of the Book is a dispute between Satan, whom the New Testament rightly refers to as the “accuser of the brethren” (Rev. 12:10), and God. Satan contends that Job served God for what He got from Him not for who God is. How rampant is this kind of self interested service of God in some of the Christian circles in our own time? How many self styled teachers seek to reduce Christian living to formulas?

At the beginning of this book we find the mystery of true faith. After his own wife told him to “curse God and die” Job spoke these words of caution and then wisdom, "Are even you going to speak as senseless women do? We accept good things from God; and should we not accept evil?" (Job 2:10)

In the midst of his discourse with these friends, he added the following acclamation which gets to the heart of the mettle of Job, "…even if he slay me, yet will I trust in Him." (Job 13:15)

These words were spoken to the self professed “experts” who had come to tell him how he could get out of the mess if he just followed their formulaic approach to religious living. They need to be shouted in some places in our own day. Job was fully surrendered to God. He refused to turn God into an object for His own use. He grasped the true mystery of a faith that really saves.

When we first encounter the “friends of Job” at the beginning of the Book they seem empathetic, tearing their cloaks, weeping and even spending a week with him in his anguish. But, their feigned compassion ends all too soon. They have something to tell Job, that is why they really came to be with him. They were not “compassionate”, in the Biblical sense. The ancient words in Hebrew and Greek translated “compassion” mean “to suffer with”. They had no interest in entering into Jobs pain but in blaming him and his behavior for it. After all, they had this whole faith thing “figured out” and they were going to enlighten him with their higher knowledge. Sound familiar? Perhaps in contemporary circles they would have given him the “latest” teaching from their superstar pastor or the new speaker making the circuit who had it all figured out, along with some formulaic use of the bible.

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

 2009/5/28 10:46Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Benjamin wrote:

Quote:
Jeff, Let's first establish the book of Job is about suffering. Next, lets make clear, in our Christian life we are to Count it all Joy James 1.




Quote:
And did God in the end Praise Elihu? NO!



Brother Benjamin, I read your whole statement and have not found that you have rightly spoke of Elihu's standing before God. Why?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2009/5/28 12:23Profile









 Re: OT Born Again Example

Dear Jeff,

Is it possible for you to give explanation, dealing with the death and resurrection of Christ, the destruction of the devil, the sending of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, and Christ's statement in John 3:5, 6, how you believe Job was 'born again', (if that is what you are proposing)?

Specifically, I am requesting that you change your style (if only for me) from asking questions about OT texts, to a declamation of your belief on this point.

I have heard Carter Conlon call Job 'prophetic' (although I didn't note the name of the sermon, sorry), and this concurs with how I read him in places.

That Job's experience [i]foreshadows[/i] new birth (which is spiritual), is plausible, but to conclude he [i][b]was[/i][/b] '[u]born again[/u]', goes distinctly beyond such a parallel.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.


This short sermon by Phil Goble - [url=http://www.podfeed.net/play/play.asp?id=13037]The Empty Tomb[/url] (a sermon to Orthodox Jews), brings a viable parallel (without mentioning Job), which can include OT saints in the resurrection; we know from Martha was culturally understood; but where is the claim in scripture, that Job regarded God as [i]his[/i] Father?

 2009/5/28 13:27
RevBenjamin
Member



Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


 Re:

Jeff,

The God of Eliphaz and the others becomes in their petty and exacting thoughts how God relates with mankind. It’s a fatal misconception of all religious externalists and moralizers. Their God is always a small God.

God does not class Elihu with Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar (cf) (Job 42:7) but he is still a dogmatist, and his eloquent sermon is marred by self-assertiveness (Job 32:8,9; 33:3).

God does not mention Job’s wife either, who we know counseled Job to curse God and die. Does that mean God approved of what she said? NO!

God’s judgment of Elihu is that he darkened counsel by words (Job 38:2) the very charge that Elihu had brought against Job. (Job 34:35; 35:16). Also, the dialogue of God to Job is free from any of the accusations Elihu stated.

Jeff, no one was Born Again in the OT. These certainly lived by faith. We are told in Hebrews 11 that these all died not having received the PROMISE. The Promise was the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the New Covenant Promise. The New Covenant came into effect at the resurrection of Jesus Christ.


Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

 2009/5/28 14:16Profile





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