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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : If Noah, who was not born again, was a preacher of righteousness . .

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 Re:

Bro let me keep you from further embarrassment here, and I mean this sincerely. You seemed to have used my post in quotes, which quoted you, and answered your own language once again. Let's go through this.


Anonymity stated this below as you quoted in one of your earlier posts:

.........................................................................
Quote:

He was made righteous by faith as it says in Hebrews. Yes this faith is mingled with works but it is not the works that save you but merely the faith that produces works. It was Noah's faith/trust/belief/humility/dependence/surrender to God that made Him righteous. Once again it is not works that saves you but faith in Christ that will in turn result in works as fruit.

............................................ end anonymity's quote that YOU CITED!!!


Now, you stated this below as a response to anonymity's quote above which you yourself cited:

Your Quote: "Yep however, in Noah's case, it could only be faith in God. Jesus wasn't born and the Holy Spirit wasn't given. Elementary stuff, my friend.. ." Intense


Now scroll further to your next post which now quotes yourself and the above rebuttal:

Your own Quote is posted again by you here below:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep however, in Noah's case, it could only be faith in God. Jesus wasn't born and the Holy Spirit wasn't given. Elementary stuff, my friend... Intense
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now Here's your own response to your own above Quote right here:

"Once again it was His faith in God but Jesus is God so therefore it was His faith in Jesus plus the Gospel was preached to them beforehand." Intense


If this isn't enough, you take what I posted as YOUR OWN QUOTES (both together) right here below then answer them yet again. Here is your quote to me:


Pity? I ask for no pity.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep however, in Noah's case, it could only be faith in God. Jesus wasn't born and the Holy Spirit wasn't given. Elementary stuff, my friend.. .
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Intense

"Once again it was His faith in God but Jesus is God so therefore it was His faith in Jesus plus the Gospel was preached to them beforehand." Intense
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above quotes are yours. And now you again answer yourself below:


"Wrong. They had faith in what God "preached" to them, at least as much as Abraham had when the Lord told him, Sarah would bear a child. .. and he is called the "father of faith". Enter Ishmael." Intense


What gives??? I never...never posted ANY REBUTTAL to what you and AlivetoGod debated on Biblical doctrine. So, when you say "WRONG", you seem to be rebutting your own quotes that I'm posting from you, as those quotes are not from me at all. They are yours!

AlivetoGod first noticed you responding to your own quote, so that makes two of us here. But in your haste to your own defense, you then again post a quote that is originally your own (as I had quoted you) and answer it once again. This is much much more than a 'typo'.

I certainly hope I'm amiss here with the chronological accuracy of your quotes and the rebuttal's to your own quotes henceforth. But it seems obvious that you are continually looking at your own language posted by us and responding to it. I know that is the case in my post as I never responded to any of your doctrine or opinion as a straight rebuttal.

Bro, as much as I may disagree with your doctrine and motives here, I urge you to please go no further with this.

AlivetoGod, thread brothers and sisters, am I missing something here? If so, I owe Intense a sincere and regrettable apology.


 2009/5/26 21:36
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

I'm not Jimmy, but I'll try to help.



You share my perspective well. Seeing that this thread is quickly spiraling down hill, I would like to offer some additional quick thoughts in hopes that perhaps somebody out there will be edified. Prepare to eat some good stuff.

It is my opinion, any attempt to show the giving/receiving of the Spirit as demonstrated in the gospel of John and the day of Pentecost as somehow constituting a salvation experience is futile, and is nowhere taught in all of Scripture. It is reading something into the text that simply isn't there. Such is a simply a false dichotomy that is rampant among many well meaning Bible students, but ultimately creates a great discontinuity between testaments, and does nothing but to interject great confusion into topics such as what has been talked about in this thread thus far.

The anticipated last days outpouring of the Spirit that the prophets looked forward to was not for salvific purposes, as salvation has always been readily available in all generations, along with the personal indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Instead of being for salvific purposes, the anticipated outpouring of the Spirit was ultimately for evangelistic purposes. The outpouring of the Spirit would equip Israel's sons and daughters for its prophetic task so it could fulfill it's calling to reach the nations, and become the great prophetic community and witness that God desired it would become with the advent of the Messiah.

The giving of the Spirit as seen in John and in Acts was ultimately patterned after Christ's anointing by the Spirit at John's baptism. When seen as such, confusing either of those instances as a salvation experience becomes hard to swallow. They no more needed to receive the the Spirit for salvation than Christ needed to! Christ didn't receive the Spirit at the Jordan for salvation, rather, He received it so He might fulfill His destiny as Isaiah's prophesied Servant, so that He might cause Israel to fulfill its mission to the nations.

Many of you are probably scratching your head over some of the language I have employed here. If you are though, I must say in all humility, you probably haven't spent much time reading the writings of the prophets, and truly trying to grasp what their message was all about. If you truly studied them and wrestled with their message, you would see that these were the things they looked deeply into. The seed of this message began in Eden, was planted in Abraham, cared for by Moses, and grew to maturity in the prophets, especially that of Isaiah 40-60.

Unfortunately I don't have more time to expound on this topic, as important as it is, but I must now bow out. May those who have ears truly hear. If all else fails, go study the prophets much more closely. It is fly over country for some, but, they must be truly wrestled with. I would also highly commend to you the sermons of Art Katz, and the writings of scholars such as David Baron, Adolph Saphir, Roger Stronstad, and Walter Kaiser for a much fuller appreciation and in depth treatment of these crucial issues.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2009/5/26 23:05Profile









 Re:




Intense AKA Ormly is using those of us who have responded in Christian love and concern for a "brother" who has lost his way. However, he is not a sheep, but a goat, and as such has no interest in the Scripture that we post that refutes 100% of what he posts and 100% of what he believes.


But now I find out that intense has been here in the past as ORMLY. His posts are so outside those of orthodox Christianity, they do not deserve the time of day for a response, or even the venue of sermonindex to post his cultish ideas online, in an effort to infect others.

This is a recent response by Intense, responding to a post by Anonymity:

[b]Anonymity wrote to Intense:[/b]

“He was made righteous by faith as it says in Hebrews. Yes this faith is mingled with works but it is not the works that save you but merely the faith that produces works. It was Noah's faith/trust/belief/humility/dependence/surrender to God that made Him righteous. Once again it is not works that saves you but faith in Christ that will in turn result in works as fruit.

[b]Intense’s response to Anonymity:

Yep however, in Noah's case, it could only be faith in God. Jesus wasn't born and the Holy Spirit wasn't given. Elementary stuff, my friend.[/b]

[b]Walter's Response to Intense AKA Ormly

I would like to respond, using the Bible to refute EVERYTHING you have posted about the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ, as well as the Holy Spirit, as stated above:[/b]



The Bible’s answer to Intense:

YOU ARE DECEIVED BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KNOW THE SCRIPTURES:

1.Jesus Christ, in His pre-incarnate condition as God the Son, was the creator of Heaven and Earth, and everthing there is. He is the image of the unseen God, and walked and talked with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

John 1: 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. He was in the beginning with God. 3. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Col 1:15-18
15. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


[b] “The Angel of the Lord”, is found throughout the Old Testament, AND IS THE PRE-INCARNATE JESUS CHRIST:

The Angel Of The LORD[/b]

"...No one has seen God at any time..." (John 1:18; cf. 1 John 4:12) declared the apostle John. Given that Jesus is identified in Scripture as God (John 1:1), and that He has been sent among men (John 1:14; Matthew 1:23) to declare the Father to us (John 1:18; 14:9-10), it would seem appropriate to conclude that John's statement was with regard to the Father, not the Son. In fact, Jesus tells us that no one "...has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father." (John 6:46)

[b]And yet, there are occurrences, especially in the Old Testament where individuals saw the LORD. If no one has seen the Father at any time, who is it that was seen by these folks? Who is it that appeared to Abraham saying, "I am Almighty God..." (Genesis 17:1)? Who was the LORD that he entertained with a meal a chapter later (Genesis 18:1)? Who did Moses speak to face to face (Exodus 33:11)? The Scriptures reveal plainly that it was not the Father (whom no man has seen at any time), but rather the pre-incarnate Christ — Jesus, before He came in the flesh.[/b]

The Christ Led Israel From Egypt
• Christ was "...the spiritual Rock that followed them..." (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)
• Moses tells us "...the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of cloud..." (Exodus 13:21)
• Exodus 14:19 calls this same One, identified by Paul as Christ and by Moses as the LORD "the Angel of God..."
The Christ Led Israel In The Wilderness
• Paul cautions us to not "...tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents..." (1 Corinthians 10:9; cf. Numbers 21:5-6). The inference is that they tempted Christ, for he was the One who journeyed with them in the wilderness.
The Christ Spoke To Moses From The Burning Bush
• Stephen, in his review of Israel's history indicated that it was the Angel of the LORD who appeared to Moses in the burning bush (Acts 7:30, 35). In the Exodus account, the same individual is referred to as "...the Angel of the LORD... the LORD... God... the God of your father..." (Exodus 3:2-6)
The Christ Spoke To Moses And Israel From Sinai
• Again, Stephen calls the One who spoke with Moses and the nation from Mount Sinai "...the Angel..." (Acts 7:38) The Exodus account refers to Him as "...the LORD..." (Exodus 19:20-21), "...God..." (Exodus 20:1-2), and "...My Angel..." (Exodus 23:20-23)

The Christ Foretold Manoah of Samson's Birth
• Manoah and his wife were told in Judges that they would have a child. The message came from "...the Angel of the LORD..." (Judges 13:16). Manoah was not aware who this was speaking to him, and asked His name. The response came from the Angel of the LORD, "Why do you ask My name, seeing it is Wonderful." (v 18) This is among the titles which are applied to the Christ (Isaiah 9:6)

• Manoah and his wife made an offering to the LORD, and "...it happened as the flame went up toward heaven from the altar – the Angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar!" (v 20) What did they conclude from this? "...Manoah knew that He was the Angel of the LORD." (v 21). As such, he feared, "We shall surely die, because we have seen God!" (v 22)

[b]The Christ Appeared To Joshua [/b]
•"...a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand... as Commander of the army of the LORD I have now come... Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped." (Joshua 5:13-15)

• The worship of angels is forbidden (Revelation 22:8-9), but Joshua bowed and worshiped, even as Moses had (Exodus 3:5).

[b]The Christ Appeared To Hagar [/b]
• "...The Angel of the LORD..." spoke to Hagar and "...she called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees..." wondering, "Have I also here seen Him who sees me?" (Genesis 16:7-13)
• Years later, this same one heard the voice of Ishmael, and again spoke with Hagar. He is identified as both "...God..." and "...the Angel of God..." (Genesis 21:14-20)

[b]The Christ Appeared To Abraham [/b]
• On more than one occasion, the Angel of the LORD appeared to and spoke with Abraham. In Genesis 17:1, He identifies Himself as "Almighty God". In Genesis 18, again, the Angel of the LORD comes, with two other angels also. In Genesis 22, the Angel of the LORD stopped Abraham from doing harm to his son Isaac, stating, "...now I know that you fear God..." How did He know? "...you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me..." The sacrifice was being made to God, to the Angel of the LORD.

[b]The Christ Appeared To Balaam [/b]
• Throughout Numbers 22:22-35, "God", "the Angel of the LORD", and "the LORD" are used interchangeably to refer to the One who was angered at Balaam and stood against him in the way.

Several other texts speak about the Angel of the LORD, and indicate that this is the pre-incarnate Christ, one who is equal to the Father in His nature, the LORD, Jehovah God. The above should suffice to see the work of the Lord, even in Old Testament times, as the pre-incarnate Christ worked among the people of Israel.


[b]The Holy Spirit appears throughout the Old Testament, starting in Genesis:

The Holy Spirit in the Old Testament [/b]
The Holy Spirit was present upon the earth even before the creation of man: Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters (Genesis 1:2).
We see the action of the Holy Spirit in the lives of some of the people in the Old Testament. We see that the Spirit of the Lord "came upon" some of the central figures of the Old Testament at certain times. But this was an exceptional occurrence. The following scriptures are a few examples of this:
(Judges 3:10) The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war. The LORD gave Cushan Rishathaim king of Aram into the hands of Othniel, who overpowered him.

(Judges 6:34) Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet, summoning the Abiezrites to follow him.

(Judges 14:6) The Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power so that he tore the lion apart with his bare hands as he might have torn a young goat. But he told neither his father nor his mother what he had done.

(1 Samuel 10:6) The Spirit of the LORD will come upon you in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person.

(1 Samuel 16:13) So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from that day on the Spirit of the LORD came upon David in power. Samuel then went to Ramah.

(Ezekiel 11:5) Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon me, and he told me to say: "This is what the LORD says: That is what you are saying, O house of Israel, but I know what is going through your mind.

[b]When Moses grew tired of leading the people of Israel, God told him to gather together 70 elders of the people. God said that He would take some of the anointing of the Holy Spirit that was upon Moses and place it upon the 70 elders (Numbers 11:17). When the Holy Spirit came upon the elders, they prophesied. Even two men in the camp that did not come out to the meeting tent began to prophesy. When the people came to Moses, they complained that the two mean were prophesying in the camp. But Moses replied, " And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!" Numbers 11:29

Moses looked forward to the time when all of the people of God could receive this anointing of the Holy Spirit. Joel prophesied that it would happen. Peter repeated the prophecy of Joel on the day of Pentecost, when God fulfilled His promise:

(Acts 2:16-18) 16. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:.[/b]


That is it for me, no more wasted time with Ormly, Intense, or whoever you really are. You have no interest in what I have just spent 1 hour putting together, just for you. It is hopeless to continue.

Sincerely,

Walter

 2009/5/26 23:38
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

KingJimmy wrote:


It is my opinion, any attempt to show the giving/receiving of the Spirit as demonstrated in the gospel of John and the day of Pentecost as somehow constituting a salvation experience is futile, and is nowhere taught in all of Scripture. It is reading something into the text that simply isn't there. Such is a simply a false dichotomy that is rampant among many well meaning Bible students, but ultimately creates a great discontinuity between testaments, and does nothing but to interject great confusion into topics such as what has been talked about in this thread thus far.

The anticipated last days outpouring of the Spirit that the prophets looked forward to was not for salvific purposes, as salvation has always been readily available in all generations, along with the personal indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Instead of being for salvific purposes, the anticipated outpouring of the Spirit was ultimately for evangelistic purposes. The outpouring of the Spirit would equip Israel's sons and daughters for its prophetic task so it could fulfill it's calling to reach the nations, and become the great prophetic community and witness that God desired it would become with the advent of the Messiah.

The giving of the Spirit as seen in John and in Acts was ultimately patterned after Christ's anointing by the Spirit at John's baptism. When seen as such, confusing either of those instances as a salvation experience becomes hard to swallow. They no more needed to receive the the Spirit for salvation than Christ needed to! Christ didn't receive the Spirit at the Jordan for salvation, rather, He received it so He might fulfill His destiny as Isaiah's prophesied Servant, so that He might cause Israel to fulfill its mission to the nations.




I am somewhat glad you said that this was your opinion.

The bible clearly says that if one does not have the spirit of Christ then he is none of his and also Jesus said that we must born of the spirit.

It is clear from the scriptures that none can enter heaven without being regenerated by the spirit of Christ.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.

The Holy Spirit could not come and dwell in anyone until Jesus Christ had made atonement for our sins and the person placing their faith in christ Jesus and being reconciled to God through his redemptive work on the cross.

There is none and can never be any salvation apart from the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

KJ, I fear God and apart from His Son and his sacrificial work can no one be saved. I would be afraid to post what you posted concerning salvation being apart from the Holy spirit when Christ was cursed for us on the tree at calvary so the we could receive the promised Holy Spirit.

I repeat no one can ever be saved apart from the Holy Spirit.

We are all to be born of the Holy spirit before we are filled with the Spirit. Jesus was already born from the Holy spirit in the virgin mary.

The Holy Spirit was already in Jesus because he was born of the Holy Spirit before He was filled with the Holy Spirit at Jordan.

We also must be born (regenerated)of the Holy Spirit before He will fall upon us to baptize us in the Holy Spirit for ministry.

Blessings to you!

 2009/5/26 23:44Profile









 Re:

Intense AKA Ormly is using those of us who have responded in Christian love and concern for a "brother" who has lost his way. However, he is not a sheep, but a goat, and as such has no interest in the Scripture that we post that refutes 100% of what he posts and 100% of what he believes.


But now I find out that intense has been here in the past as ORMLY. His posts are so outside those of orthodox Christianity, they do not deserve the time of day for a response, or even the venue of sermonindex to post his cultish ideas online, in an effort to infect others.

This is a recent response by Intense, responding to a post by Anonymity:

Anonymity wrote to Intense:

“He was made righteous by faith as it says in Hebrews. Yes this faith is mingled with works but it is not the works that save you but merely the faith that produces works. It was Noah's faith/trust/belief/humility/dependence/surrender to God that made Him righteous. Once again it is not works that saves you but faith in Christ that will in turn result in works as fruit.

Intense’s response to Anonymity:

Yep however, in Noah's case, it could only be faith in God. Jesus wasn't born and the Holy Spirit wasn't given. Elementary stuff, my friend.

Walter's Response to Intense AKA Ormly

I would like to respond, using the Bible to refute EVERYTHING you have posted about the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ, as well as the Holy Spirit, as stated above:



The Bible’s answer to Intense:

YOU ARE DECEIVED BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KNOW THE SCRIPTURES:

1.Jesus Christ, in His pre-incarnate condition as God the Son, was the creator of Heaven and Earth, and everthing there is. He is the image of the unseen God, and walked and talked with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

John 1: 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. He was in the beginning with God. 3. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Col 1:15-18
15. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


“The Angel of the Lord”, is found throughout the Old Testament, AND IS THE PRE-INCARNATE JESUS CHRIST:

The Angel Of The LORD

"...No one has seen God at any time..." (John 1:18; cf. 1 John 4:12) declared the apostle John. Given that Jesus is identified in Scripture as God (John 1:1), and that He has been sent among men (John 1:14; Matthew 1:23) to declare the Father to us (John 1:18; 14:9-10), it would seem appropriate to conclude that John's statement was with regard to the Father, not the Son. In fact, Jesus tells us that no one "...has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father." (John 6:46)

And yet, there are occurrences, especially in the Old Testament where individuals saw the LORD. If no one has seen the Father at any time, who is it that was seen by these folks? Who is it that appeared to Abraham saying, "I am Almighty God..." (Genesis 17:1)? Who was the LORD that he entertained with a meal a chapter later (Genesis 18:1)? Who did Moses speak to face to face (Exodus 33:11)? The Scriptures reveal plainly that it was not the Father (whom no man has seen at any time), but rather the pre-incarnate Christ — Jesus, before He came in the flesh.

The Christ Led Israel From Egypt
• Christ was "...the spiritual Rock that followed them..." (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)
• Moses tells us "...the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of cloud..." (Exodus 13:21)
• Exodus 14:19 calls this same One, identified by Paul as Christ and by Moses as the LORD "the Angel of God..."
The Christ Led Israel In The Wilderness
• Paul cautions us to not "...tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents..." (1 Corinthians 10:9; cf. Numbers 21:5-6). The inference is that they tempted Christ, for he was the One who journeyed with them in the wilderness.
The Christ Spoke To Moses From The Burning Bush
• Stephen, in his review of Israel's history indicated that it was the Angel of the LORD who appeared to Moses in the burning bush (Acts 7:30, 35). In the Exodus account, the same individual is referred to as "...the Angel of the LORD... the LORD... God... the God of your father..." (Exodus 3:2-6)
The Christ Spoke To Moses And Israel From Sinai
• Again, Stephen calls the One who spoke with Moses and the nation from Mount Sinai "...the Angel..." (Acts 7:38) The Exodus account refers to Him as "...the LORD..." (Exodus 19:20-21), "...God..." (Exodus 20:1-2), and "...My Angel..." (Exodus 23:20-23)

The Christ Foretold Manoah of Samson's Birth
• Manoah and his wife were told in Judges that they would have a child. The message came from "...the Angel of the LORD..." (Judges 13:16). Manoah was not aware who this was speaking to him, and asked His name. The response came from the Angel of the LORD, "Why do you ask My name, seeing it is Wonderful." (v 18) This is among the titles which are applied to the Christ (Isaiah 9:6)

• Manoah and his wife made an offering to the LORD, and "...it happened as the flame went up toward heaven from the altar – the Angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar!" (v 20) What did they conclude from this? "...Manoah knew that He was the Angel of the LORD." (v 21). As such, he feared, "We shall surely die, because we have seen God!" (v 22)

The Christ Appeared To Joshua
•"...a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand... as Commander of the army of the LORD I have now come... Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped." (Joshua 5:13-15)

• The worship of angels is forbidden (Revelation 22:8-9), but Joshua bowed and worshiped, even as Moses had (Exodus 3:5).

The Christ Appeared To Hagar
• "...The Angel of the LORD..." spoke to Hagar and "...she called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees..." wondering, "Have I also here seen Him who sees me?" (Genesis 16:7-13)
• Years later, this same one heard the voice of Ishmael, and again spoke with Hagar. He is identified as both "...God..." and "...the Angel of God..." (Genesis 21:14-20)

The Christ Appeared To Abraham
• On more than one occasion, the Angel of the LORD appeared to and spoke with Abraham. In Genesis 17:1, He identifies Himself as "Almighty God". In Genesis 18, again, the Angel of the LORD comes, with two other angels also. In Genesis 22, the Angel of the LORD stopped Abraham from doing harm to his son Isaac, stating, "...now I know that you fear God..." How did He know? "...you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me..." The sacrifice was being made to God, to the Angel of the LORD.

The Christ Appeared To Balaam
• Throughout Numbers 22:22-35, "God", "the Angel of the LORD", and "the LORD" are used interchangeably to refer to the One who was angered at Balaam and stood against him in the way.

Several other texts speak about the Angel of the LORD, and indicate that this is the pre-incarnate Christ, one who is equal to the Father in His nature, the LORD, Jehovah God. The above should suffice to see the work of the Lord, even in Old Testament times, as the pre-incarnate Christ worked among the people of Israel.


The Holy Spirit appears throughout the Old Testament, starting in Genesis:

The Holy Spirit in the Old Testament
The Holy Spirit was present upon the earth even before the creation of man: Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters (Genesis 1:2).
We see the action of the Holy Spirit in the lives of some of the people in the Old Testament. We see that the Spirit of the Lord "came upon" some of the central figures of the Old Testament at certain times. But this was an exceptional occurrence. The following scriptures are a few examples of this:
(Judges 3:10) The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war. The LORD gave Cushan Rishathaim king of Aram into the hands of Othniel, who overpowered him.

(Judges 6:34) Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet, summoning the Abiezrites to follow him.

(Judges 14:6) The Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power so that he tore the lion apart with his bare hands as he might have torn a young goat. But he told neither his father nor his mother what he had done.

(1 Samuel 10:6) The Spirit of the LORD will come upon you in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person.

(1 Samuel 16:13) So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from that day on the Spirit of the LORD came upon David in power. Samuel then went to Ramah.

(Ezekiel 11:5) Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon me, and he told me to say: "This is what the LORD says: That is what you are saying, O house of Israel, but I know what is going through your mind.

When Moses grew tired of leading the people of Israel, God told him to gather together 70 elders of the people. God said that He would take some of the anointing of the Holy Spirit that was upon Moses and place it upon the 70 elders (Numbers 11:17). When the Holy Spirit came upon the elders, they prophesied. Even two men in the camp that did not come out to the meeting tent began to prophesy. When the people came to Moses, they complained that the two mean were prophesying in the camp. But Moses replied, " And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!" Numbers 11:29

Moses looked forward to the time when all of the people of God could receive this anointing of the Holy Spirit. Joel prophesied that it would happen. Peter repeated the prophecy of Joel on the day of Pentecost, when God fulfilled His promise:

(Acts 2:16-18) 16. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:.


That is it for me, no more wasted time with Ormly, Intense, or whoever you really are. You have no interest in what I have just spent 1 hour putting together, just for you. It is hopeless to continue.

Sincerely,

Walter

 2009/5/26 23:51
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

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Mike Balog

 2009/5/27 0:03Profile





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