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Jimotheus
Member



Joined: 2005/7/8
Posts: 53


 Re:

Greetings Bible1985:

Thank you for your reply. I do wish to reference the typical passages that are used to teach John Calvin's theology. However, where I live it is late and I have to get up for work at 2:00 a.m. so I do not have the time now, but when I come home from work, I would like to give it a shot. I am not a preacher, or a theologian: I'm just an everyday average man with concerns about what some call the gospel when in fact it is not. So, have me excused for now, and I will post something concerning the verses Calvinist love to use to support what they call truth. God Bless.

 2009/6/11 17:54Profile
bible1985
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 354


 Re:

you sound like a friend of mine named ryan who lives in las vegas, but i will love to discuss this and give you my word.

 2009/6/11 18:03Profile
ceedub
Member



Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215
Canada

 Re:

I'd just like to comment on an earlier statement on this thread by Jimotheus that blew me away...

Quote:
Once again, if you keep in mind and heart as you read the scriptures that the only one who is worthy of unconditional election is Christ Jesus alone. This is why he and only he is the elect of God.



This displays perfectly the unwarranted hatred of Calvinism.

To say that we as depraved sinners are the only ones worthy of 'conditional election' while the sinless Christ should be the elect of God apart from condition of merit is one of the most incredible statements I've ever heard.

On the contrary, my friend, Jesus is the only one worthy of CONDITIONAL ELECTION, not the other way around.

 2009/6/11 19:32Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1986


 Re: Arbitrary or not Arbitrary

jpspeer wrote on 2009/6/11

"If Calvinism is no way arbitrary, then what is the determining factor in who God has elected?

Just an honest question...

When I ask how God's choice is made so that I might understand how God isn't arbitrary according to the so-called doctrines of grace, I am looking for an actual answer."


An actual honest answer to your query follows:

God the Father has no more and no less of a standard of judgement for election than God the Son.

Being created in Christ Jesus as opposed to not being created in Christ Jesus is God the Father's non-arbitrariness in election by which individuals are compared and judged.

Jesus is very God of very God, and we the elect of God in Him. And so God is well pleased with us as with His Own Dear Son of His Love.

Eph. 3:14-19 For this cause I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
That he would grant you according to the riches of his glory to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height. And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye may be filled with all the fullness of God.


Eph. 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him.

Col. 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Rom. 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The elect of God are the righteousness of God in Him,the Christ of God.

God sees Christ alone. His perfect Righteousness,His perfect obedience,His very Own Image. Absolutely nothing in the creature is by any means a motif for electing or not electing this one or that one.

Therefore,God does not arbitrarily elect or not elect. The adoption of sons and their inheritance is "to the praise of the glory of His grace in which He favored us in the One having been loved" (Eph. 1:6).

The Son and the Father's love for His Son is certainly not arbitrary but is God's sole purpose for electing.

May all who read make their own judgement as to whether this statement is true.

And Jehovah said to him, Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the dumb, or the deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? Is it not I, Jehovah?
(Exodus 4:11)

And he said to me, Behold! Stop! For I am your fellow-slave, and of your brothers the prophets, and of the ones keeping the Words of this Book. Do worship to God (Rev.22:9).

 2009/6/11 20:37Profile
ceedub
Member



Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215
Canada

 Re:

Quote:

ceedub wrote:
I'd just like to comment on an earlier statement on this thread by Jimotheus that blew me away...

Quote:
Once again, if you keep in mind and heart as you read the scriptures that the only one who is worthy of unconditional election is Christ Jesus alone. This is why he and only he is the elect of God.



This displays perfectly the unwarranted hatred of Calvinism.

To say that we as depraved sinners are the only ones worthy of 'conditional election' while the sinless Christ should be the elect of God apart from condition of merit is one of the most incredible statements I've ever heard.

On the contrary, my friend, Jesus is the only one worthy of CONDITIONAL ELECTION, not the other way around.




Jimotheus, could you respond to this?

 2009/6/12 12:17Profile
fuehrerbe21
Member



Joined: 2008/10/21
Posts: 151
Wisconsin

 Re:

Jimotheus,

Can any creature stand before Almighty God and on their own will spit in the face of God and deny Him?

I'm not here to debate, but the issue I have is not that of Calvanism (which we are not to discuss in a public forum), but that of God's sovereignty.

Nothing created is above the creator.

If Christ himself is the elect, but we (the saved) are a new creation, reconciled to God, would we not then share in this election?

I would encourage you to read The Sovereignty of God by A. W. Pink if you haven't already done so.

I'm not here to debate, so I bow out before it even begins...

Respectfully,
Ben


_________________
Ben Fuehrer

 2009/6/12 19:23Profile





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