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anonymity
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Joined: 2009/1/16
Posts: 393


 Some faith and receiving verses I don't really totally understand...?

There are some general prosperity verses like

Malachi 3:10 -Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.

,but that may be Old Testament and interpreted to spiritual ends.

Then there is

Luke 6:38 - Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it shall be measured to you again.

, so I am not sure if this means that anything we give including money will be given back to us.

Or

2 Corinthians 9:8 - And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Which is also in context of giving and receiving.

I am sure there are other verses.

Lastly, I will remark on this verse pertaining to ask and receive healing which would infer it is God's will for everyone to be healed if only they would believe and live and do correctly

James 5:14-15 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up.

Concluding, I would say that I hold to a position that it is not God's will to heal all before the 2nd coming not even those who have faith and live holy and are under spiritual elders ect. Nor am I persuaded that all the money and whatever else we give will be given back to us and multiplied even. I think that sometime God would have us suffer, or be tested, or just have some prophetic plan for us that does not include natural blessing. I don't know maybe I am wrong and would like to open up the discussion and hear from others. These are not the only verses I mean there are many others about believing and receiving this or that.

 2009/5/19 17:18Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3396
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Some faith and receiving verses I don't really totally understand...

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=63]Gladys Aylward - Testimony[/url]

Listen to this woman give her testimony!! She speaks specifically about Malachi 3.10 and translates the Chinese version of this verse and it's beautiful. [i]"The great, over and above all One, Jehovah, who controls the hosts leans saying, "If you will bring into my storehouse your [b]completed[/b] tithe that my family may be sustained, then you can prove me and see if I will not open wide windows in heaven pouring out blessings so many you will never be able to use them all."[/i]

Her explanation of what the Lord has shown her about this verse proves that all doesn't meet the eyes!!

We from America usually tend to see things from a "prosperity" TO US WARD!! Does that make sense? LOL

I'd say there is another way (God's way) to these verse than we realize!

God bless you!


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Lisa

 2009/5/19 21:01Profile
bible4life
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Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1559
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 Re:

I think when you have the holy spirit the desire is never on recieving back truly but God promises to give back to those who honor him, who have right heart. Our shouldn't be in giving to recieve it just shouldn't, if God wants to he can. Sometimes it is Gods will that we don't get healed, look at paul in corinthians, he was delivered. This flesh this life here does not mean as much as our eternal life. I do not agree with the health and wealth prosperity gospel today at all. God has healed me before and at other times hasn't but that is up to him not us and we have no right to point the finger at God but ask him to gives us peace and strength and grace. According to scripture God has a will and some of it we do not know, so being poor or unhealthy could be a way of using us to speak to others. Millions of christians have been martyred for their faith and our lord jesus was crucified but that was here, but in eternity is where they our reigning, so to expect everything to be perfect for us would not always be so. But hey i could be wrong.


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John Beechy

 2009/5/19 22:16Profile
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Joined: 2009/1/16
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 Re:

Lysa,

thank you for your reply. I think I see what you are saying. You are saying that we think that Christianity and the Gospel and so forth is all about us instead of the glory of God first. So possibly you are saying that this receiving will be us receiving to give to God or something.

 2009/5/19 22:21Profile
anonymity
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Joined: 2009/1/16
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 Re:

bible4life,

That point about Paul was a good point. I think I have heard some people debate whether is was an illness or something, I am not sure if it had any legitimacy to it. So I guess it would just depend on the will of God. Possibly though we often think it is His will to not heal more then it really is. I mean if James says you "will" be healed and Paul blames the Corinthians sickness on them not taking the Lord supper with the right attitudes then possibly there should be many more healing then there are and possibly to not be healed is more of the exception then the rule or majority. Lastly, the life of Jesus healing so many and using it as a witness to say if I can heal you naturally then I can surely heal you spiritually. I mean God greatly desires to propogate His Gospel and so much of the burden is on us and this I can say by revelation. I feel like I am receiving more clarity on this topic as much of my denomination though claiming to believe in gifts yet lack emphasis and practice in it and often shuns it. So if God wants to propogate then Gospel then He surely wants to heal since signs and wonders is proof that God is working with you.

As for us never wanting to receive back I am not sure that is totally true. I say this because Jesus seeks to motivate us by rewards. One might say well out reward is to give more glory to God and sacrifice more. I am not sure that is totally legit. I think that when we are blessed then God is glorified even in that. And that not only will we receive rewards but we will be able to use those rewards to serve God. Last thought is the scripture that states that the least on earth will be served in heaven.

 2009/5/19 22:35Profile
ChrisMo
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Joined: 2007/12/31
Posts: 33


 Re: Jesus Has Done It All

I have been listening to Derek Prince, he has some excellent messages on his website. He talks about how Jesus has done it all on the cross, I don't know why we are always limiting the work that Jesus did on the cross, if we do that we are saying that Jesus did it for nothing.
In regards to healing, it says in Isaiah 53:
4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
Please do not be one of those people that say it means our spiritual healing only.
He went to the cross for all we need.
I know why alot of people don't want to think like this, it is because there are so many lukewarm christians out there, that does not mean to say that we have to swing the total opposite way, I know I tended to do this when I first realised that I had been lukewarm, but God in His graciousness, has helped me see that it does not have to be this way. He has done it all for me, how blessed am I, that does not mean that I grab at all the things He has done, all I want is His will for my life, I love Him more than my life & would be willing to lay my life down for Him.
But in the meantime I will be expectant for Him to move in me by His precious Holy Spirit & if that means He wants to bless me, I will not be saying no. He knows what we can handle & He will not give us any more than that.


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Christine

 2009/5/19 22:49Profile
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 Re:

Chrismo,

I wont say that it is only spiritual. I cant say for sure that it means natural for if such were the case and someone interpreted it to mean everyone should be healed since everyone should be saved I am not quite persuaded that all are willed to be healed at least that is now on earth though I am sure by the renewal of all things.

I would have at once said it was only spiritual but I am not at this point going to say that for sure. I would say this though that if that verse meant that healing and the Gospel were one and the same then would not all who were actually saved be healed. Or if we are to be healed then why don't we just have body that we rid of any corruption but the truth is no matter how healthy we are we all have some degree of corruption since we are all dying.

I also thought lets say for instance that all the OT promises were all to us as natural. Lets say the majority of a nation turns to God. Does that then mean that the nation will get blessed naturally. Would that not be kingdom now theology. I am not so sure about those transformations videos where a bunch of crops and so forth were claimed to come forth because the people were turning to God. I haven't seen it so I cant say. This would go further into saying that the US was like the nation of God or something at one point. So my point is is that it is not always wrong to interpret OT passages spiritually. I am not ready to go to the extreme and say that God does not bless nations. I would however also state that much of what God does is through martyrdom and such as in China.

 2009/5/19 23:06Profile
bible4life
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Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1559
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 Re:

I don't want to get into an argument or anything but if you read isaiah 53 carefully it is pertaining to our sins and his death and resurrection has defeated death, sin, it is not talking about our physical body be healed but our sinful nature being redeemed by the saviour.By him baring our sins on the cross we now can be healed of the death of sin, i am sorry you might here that a lot but you can't be bias or lean a certain way because you want to, what does the scripture in context say here. Hey for an example i had a hard time believing God chose certain people and i would not believe because I said God couldn't do that but i decided to study the scripture on it and that is exactly what God showed me that he in my interpretation of scripture that i think God revealed to me through seeking was exactly what my bias flesh didn't want me to believe. I could be wrong, but look at historical christianity interpretation over the past 2000 years and you might get a better understanding. One thing also God can heal at anytime, he can, but if you don't get healed right away and say you have repented of everything and our living almost completely without spot in christ which is impossible then maybe it is Gods will but my pastor for an example wasn't healed right away, he had to get surgery after waiting on god for 2 years, my friends get sick still. We our sinners who have the grace of God for us being saved, God can do anything. Read the story of the missionary david livingstone, and others. I think certain churches can get you this mind set too, actually i think they focus too much on healing, signs, and not the word of god and a holy righteous lifestyle, hey i say it because i have been around it. Hey i have been healed of many things of god, but right now i have had a serious spine injury and have prayed, repented done everything, maybe it is not in his will for me and maybe my sin caused which i actually believe but, i don't think scripture promises a perfectly healthy life but it does eternal life, i mean don't you see the death and of martyrs of christians over the past 2000 years as a saying we our going to get persecuted, go through death for this faith, but i could be wrong.


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John Beechy

 2009/5/19 23:48Profile
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Posts: 33


 Re: Jesus is our all

We can look in the New Testament at Mat 8:
16When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. 17This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
"He took up our infirmities
and carried our diseases."
I can take this no other way than physical healing.
I believe that the reason alot of don't get healed is that we truly don't believe in healing.
Mat 9:2-7 Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."

3At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, "This fellow is blaspheming!"

4Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, "Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? 6But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...." Then he said to the paralytic, "Get up, take your mat and go home." 7And the man got up and went home.
I think these days most people think it is easier to be saved than be healed, but when Jesus walked it was easier for them to believe in healing than in saying your sins are forgiven.
Part of this is because becoming a christian has been made as small as saying a prayer, when we all know it is a lifestyle.




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Christine

 2009/5/20 1:05Profile
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Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

Quote:

anonymity wrote:
....So if God wants to propogate then Gospel then He surely wants to heal since signs and wonders is proof that God is working with you.




Just a quick note. In the bible proof of God working in and with you is the fruits of the spirit and not signs and wonders. (By their fruits you shall know them.... Many will say ..perform miracles. Then I will tell them plainly, "i never knew you.....Matthew 7:15-23) And I also disagree with the statement that 'to propogate the Gospel, then He surely wants to heal.' He mat/may not chose to heal, my suspicion is more often than not He chose not to heal the physical illness in these times as compared to bible times.


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geraldine

 2009/5/20 4:52Profile





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