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crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Mystics

Hello Brian,

A mixed bag for certain ... I am want to say, first of all that I am MC too! ;-) That is, the uncanny ability he has of deriving albeit more honestly the truths of my own disposition .. Take it with a grain of salt, a healthy dose of observation over some level of expertise.

There are some older postings on this matter that come to mind. Philologo's I recall was very ... adamant? if that is the word in warning about mystics and mysticism and I would concur, yet I think my attempt was to put this into some sort of perspective - better, definition. I bring him up because he is highly valued in my opinion, has some 40+ years of experience and knowledge ... Getting somewhat off track.

The difficulty to my mind is the pace and way that terms are bandied about nowadays. If Tozer was a 'mystic' in his day he might as well be an overbearing, Calvinist/fundamentalist to a 'mystic' in ours. The trouble is, he himself considered himself somewhat of a mystic, but that was clearly defined ...

Better that I find his own words and explanation rather than attempt to recall from a faulty memory. In a nut shell his was always rooted and grounded in scripture as were others who were sadly displaced into a tautological labeling, far too easy and often dishonestly. It does irk me the ease in which these things can be taken apart piece-meal and applied any old way one chooses. What constitutes mysticism (largely)
today if it is defined by some sort of foreign attainment of personal knowledge or rather 'revelation' that is only for certain special types ... It's a mud-bath of confusion - The '[i]See, even Tozer believed ____[/i]' styled approbation stolen and changed to fit whatever construct that is concocted is just plainly wrong. He would never acquiesce to the sort of prophetic imaginations turned utterance that is upon us these days, this sort of 'mystical' mumbo jumbo, "[i]The Lord said, The Lord is telling me, The Lord is 'releasing', 'anointing', 'doing', it is 'this season' or 'that season'[/i].

I digress, will see if I cannot find some of the older discussions, out-takes.


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Mike Balog

 2009/5/25 12:00Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Mystic's

[i]"I get accused occasionally by some of these hard-edged theologians of being a mystic, which I don't deny. A mystic is simply somebody who believes it is possible to commune with God Almighty right now through Jesus Christ in the Spirit and know it and have a sense of heaven all around him and being in the presence of God even when he's in the presence of men. If that's being a mystic then I plead guilty and I am."[/i]

(Sermon, "Reformation," Chicago) A.W. Tozer

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[i]"The word “mystic” ... refers to that personal spiritual experience common to the saints of Bible times and well known to multitudes of persons in the post-Biblical era. I refer to the evangelical mystic who has been brought by the gospel into intimate fellowship with the Godhead. His theology is no less and no more than is taught in the Christian Scriptures. He walks the high road of truth where walked of old prophets and apostles, and where down the centuries walked martyrs, reformers, Puritans, evangelists and missionaries of the cross. He differs from the ordinary orthodox Christian only because he experiences his faith down in the depths of his sentient being while the other does not. He exists in a world of spiritual reality. He is quietly, deeply, and sometimes almost ecstatically aware of the Presence of God in his own nature and in the world around him. His religious experience is something elemental, as old as time and the creation. It is immediate acquaintance with God by union with the Eternal Son. It is to know that which passes knowledge.[/i]"

(The Christian Book of Mystical Verse, p.vi) A.W. Tozer




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Mike Balog

 2009/5/25 12:16Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:
Edit: I had attempted an answer I thought was worthwhile, but the more I try to articulate things here on SI, the more I sound like a wind bag. The truth is I don't know most of what I write about.



MC,

I think your original post was one of the most insightful and edifying posts I have read on SI for a very long time. I only regret I didn't copy it to MS Word before it disappeared.


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TJ

 2009/5/25 12:19Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Mystics

Having some difficulty locating the older posts ...

Some bit's here;

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19741&forum=36&start=30&viewmode=flat&order=0]A vital doctrine the church has failed to teach me...[/url]

And a piece on Tozer;

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=11464&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]Mystic and Prophet[/url]

By the way, one of my favorite old saints is indeed Fenelon, a 'Catholic' to boot! Not a small controversy surrounds him nor I for bringing him up in times past, but it is no matter - He can speak for himself;

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=10270&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]Fenelon ~ Spiritual Letters[/url]


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Mike Balog

 2009/5/25 12:35Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:
The difficulty to my mind is the pace and way that terms are bandied about nowadays.



Quote:
It does irk me the ease in which these things can be taken apart piece-meal and applied any old way one chooses. What constitutes mysticism (largely) today if it is defined by some sort of foreign attainment of personal knowledge or rather 'revelation' that is only for certain special types ... It's a mud-bath of confusion



Well said.

It would seem, as it so frequently does theses days, that we must align our definitions before our discussion can have any real clarity and understanding. So much time is spent just attempting to “unify” terminology that I am often times worn out before the discussion even begins.

After having read MC’s post, I wished I had not submitted the article I did. I was hoping to bring clarity, but as I often do, I made it much more muddy (muddier?).

God bless you all.


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TJ

 2009/5/25 12:44Profile





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