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 Mysticism - Mystics - explain(ed)!

I have been disheartened lately about some connections that I am making with some folks to mysticism.

Could anyone and everyone give their input on this subject.

I don't want to make any wrong conclusions or ignorant assumptions...

 2009/5/18 9:24
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: Mysticism - Mystics - explain(ed)!

Mystics have only the illusion; we can know
the reality of Christ and the power of His
Spirit!!


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2009/5/18 10:31Profile









 Re: Mysticism - Mystics - explain(ed)!


Brother,
an yong ha sae yo! Dear Brian, I'm always leery of those who put titles in front of their names other than "brother" or "sister". I don't have a dictionary in front of my eyes, but I would think that the root of "mystic" is "mystery".

When I hear, a person say "mysticism", or proclaim themselves a "mystic", in the Spirit it seems that their is a sort of pride inherent in their words, THEY have the answers, THEY have a revelation that is hidden, and only thru "They" such answers can be made know. Which smacks to me of THEFT, "revelation" is available to all followers of Jesus via the Holy Spirit.

Paul himself makes 6 references to "mystery" in the Epistle to the Ephesians, 3 in Colossians, and they all reference the Messiah, and the Workings of God.

Ephesians 1:7-9(ESV)

"In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the [b]mystery[/b] of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ."

which is unpacked in Ephesians 1-10:
"as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth."



[b]"to unite all things in Him[/b]

thats just ONE of the references to "mystery" in that epistle.

another is Ephesians 3:4-6, and its a glorious one, easil discernible to a simple pure heart:

" When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel".

just to me, a Jew following Jesus, this is a Glorious mystery, "Gentiles are fellow heirs"!! YES! "members of the same body" YES! and "partakers of the [b]promise[/b] in Christ Jesus through the Gospel".

YES! here's the point I'm trying to make, a simple Faith, a simple Gospel, sometimes isn't enough for some folks, they have to put "bells" and "whistles" on it, and I just can't fathom WHY.

I've been spoiled, in that God the Holy Ghost has been so gracious to me, in that He has kept me from such as these, whatever "strange fire" or "teachings" I hear, God the Holy Ghost just gives me Holy Amnesia, and I veer far away from such. He says, "let MY WORD be enough for you, neil".

I've heard and seen some strange things spake in the Name of Jesus.....and they never abide in the garrisons of my soul, and I can't convey how thankful, grateful, humbled that Our Father takes care of me in such a way, and I pray that I stay on the narrow path, never deviating from the Riches of Christ.

Just your "disheartenment" alone, this check in the Spirit, should suffice to instruct you in the Way.

I love you and the Lord loves you, neil

 2009/5/18 11:24









 Re:


To BrianMira:

Roger Oakland has a great deal to say about Christian [b]mysticsim[/b] and how it is being used in the [b]Emergent Church[/b], that will very soon march into the Great Tribulation with antichrist and the false prophet.

Here is the youtube link:

[url=http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=86933BF3715657BA&search_query=roger+oakland+mysticism]History of Deception in the Church[/url]

Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

I have been disheartened lately about some connections that I am making with some folks to mysticism.

Could anyone and everyone give their input on this subject.

I don't want to make any wrong conclusions or ignorant assumptions...


 2009/5/24 12:31
StarofG0D
Member



Joined: 2007/10/28
Posts: 1232
United States

 Re:

wasn't Madam Guyon into mysticism?


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Michelle

 2009/5/24 15:24Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: Mysticism - Mystics - explain(ed)!

Quote:

BrianMira wrote:
I have been disheartened lately about some connections that I am making with some folks to mysticism.

Could anyone and everyone give their input on this subject.

I don't want to make any wrong conclusions or ignorant assumptions...



Question: "What is Christian mysticism?"

Answer:

The term "Christian mystic" is an oxymoron. Mysticism is not the experience of a Christian. Whereas Christian doctrine maintains that God dwells in all Christians and that they can experience God directly through belief in Jesus, Christian mysticism aspires to apprehend spiritual truths inaccessible through intellectual means, typically by emulation of Christ. The Bible tells us that Christ-likeness is achieved only by dying to self—not by self-effort at emulating anyone—and that spiritual truth is discerned through the intellect as guided by the indwelling Holy Spirit, who lives in all believers (John 16:13; 1 Corinthians 2:14).

The closest valid experience of a Christian that might resemble mysticism to an unbelieving observer is when the Christian is filled with the Holy Spirit. For Christians, it is evident that the extraordinary wisdom, boldness, understanding, strength, etc. that such spiritual believers demonstrate is the result of being filled with the Spirit, as it is set forth in the Bible. Unbelievers cannot correctly comprehend such things. The Bible tells us why: "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: 'For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?' But we have the mind of Christ "(1 Corinthians 2:16).

Consciousness of God is part of the common definition of the mystic’s experience, but the only valid experience of this nature for the Christian is that which is allowed according to Scripture. "The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children" (Romans 8:16). Most modern mystical experiences suggest either things that don't really have much substance (make no meaningful contribution to the understanding of corporeal life) or things that would appear to challenge Evangelical Bible doctrine, which invalidates the experience.

The closest biblical account that an unbeliever might conclude was a mystical experience might be the Apostle Paul's Damascus Road experience (Acts 22:1-21) or the experience he described in 2 Corinthians: "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell" (2 Corinthians 12:2-4).

As we examine this account from a Christian perspective, however, we notice particularly that Paul makes it clear God would not allow him to give the details of that experience. Thus it would hardly be reasonable for us to believe that God would be willing to divulge spiritual truth by the manner in which mystics seem to flaunt their experiences. It is His will to declare spiritual truth through the Apostles of the Church by the vehicle of the Holy Scriptures. "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth" (John 17:17). "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message" (John 17:20). God said, “my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge” (Hosea 4:6), not from lack of a mystical experience.

[url=http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-mysticism.html]Source[/url]


_________________
TJ

 2009/5/24 16:31Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3502
Louisiana

 Re:

Many of the early saints in the Church were considered to be mystics. Watchman Nee, A.W.Tozer, and Andrew Murray to name a few were men that were deeply affected by the writing of the early Christian mystics such as Madam Guyon. In the book "Wholly For God" by William Law, the introduction is written by Andrew Murray. He discusses in some detail the mystical element of the Christian faith.

There is certainly much mysticism that is tied into New Age teaching and is not of God, but the early Christian mystics had a deep abiding communion and union with God, and their writings have certainly made us richer.

Mike


_________________
Mike

 2009/5/24 16:36Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

I like TJ's explanation. "But we have the mind of Christ "(1 Corinthians 2:16)."

Edit: I had attempted an answer I thought was worthwhile, but the more I try to articulate things here on SI, the more I sound like a wind bag.

The truth is I don't know most of what I write about.

Just follow the scriptures the best you can...thats about all I can offer that is remotely of value.

Later brethren :)

MC




_________________
Mike Compton

 2009/5/24 19:25Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Compton wrote:
Edit: I had attempted an answer I thought was worthwhile, but the more I try to articulate things here on SI, the more I sound like a wind bag.

The truth is I don't know most of what I write about.

Just follow the scriptures the best you can...thats about all I can offer that is remotely of value.

Later brethren :)

MC



MC I like your answer the best! Although, I do appreciate the others.

The reason that I asked was because in hindsight a few things have been going off in my head as I read more scriptures and notice some suspicious or strange things happening within the 'church'.

After what I believe was my road to Damascus experience with God in 2002, I was lead to a baptist church near my hometown.

A few things stick out to me about that time. The first is that I was given Rick Warren's "purpose driven life" book and given a paper on how to be saved (actually, I saw a pile of the papers and asked if I could have some, because I was 'eager' to show people how to get saved! :-( ?).

At that time, I remember my pastor prayed for the catholic church to find a new 'holy' father, since pope john had died.

Last year, I attended seminary where my pastor is now a professor. I actually love this man, but some things have made me wonder about his direction with God's Word.

Last year, we were given the required reading list, which included:

Dallas Willard,
[b]Renovation of the Heart[/b]
Richard J. Foster
[b]Celebration of Discipline[/b]
Richard Foster / Emilie Irwin
[b]Spiritual Classics[/b]
Reginald Johnson
[b]Your Personality and the Spiritual Life[/b]

and some other recommendations like John Bartol, Elizabeth Dreyer, Mark Burrows, Gary Keisling, F. LeRon Shults, Steven Sandage, another Richard Foster book and Tozer's Pursuit of God.

(Not to mention that another class I had to take required me to read William Willimon, Bill Hybels, and Warren's "Purpose Driven Church".)

It must be noted that this was a Spiritual and Theological Disciplines class, so I understand that slant. However, what intrigued me was when I 'wikied' mysticism, the last name mentioned is Richard Foster.[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mysticism]"Christian mystic"[/url]

During the end of last years second term, our school was 'encouraged' to attend Richard Foster's Renovare (sorry I can't write the accent aigu...actually cut and paste i could...é...but I won't), where they tried to 'transform us with spiritual renewal'.

I did not feel quite comfortable the whole weekend, but since we were somewhat required to attend and we had a paper due on the 'topics' covered, I weighed in that I should pay attention.

That being said, I came out of it with nothing and probably felt further from God because of their 'self revelations'.

Sooooooooo, what is my point?

I don't know!

But like MC, I know that
Quote:
"the more I try to articulate things here on SI, the more I sound like a wind bag.

The truth is I don't know most of what I write about.



All I truly want to do is:
Quote:


Just follow the scriptures the best {I} can...



Other insight is valued, especially from the wise and discerning...

With of of the Emergent Church talk and several of those men mentioned in various threads and sites, it made me wonder if I am right to question the direction of my old pastor, professor, and the way of the present church?!

Being in South Korea, where I am a needle in a hay stack, I often feel that I am on a island with no one to fellowship with. Each "Christian" book store has posters of Osteen and other Korean pastors who are doing everything besides preaching the gospel.

On the other hand, I feel like I am being judgmental of everyone and not accepting of their views (even though I am unable to find their views in scripture).

Please, pray for me. -sigh-

Oh, God... only you are our strength.

Blessings,
BrianMira

P.S. apparently, there is a (EDIT it may be another rather than the former mentioned): cult church (English Academy) in my city spreading rumors about my wife and I... they are trying to hinder our ability to work as teachers.

 2009/5/25 10:28
poet
Member



Joined: 2007/2/16
Posts: 231
Longview WA

 Re:

Bro Brian.
you can find out all about most of the authors you mention from www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/
click on the search icon and just put in the name...
This site is dedicated to the uncovering of the mystical practices of these people, they practice something called centering prayer, or contemplative prayer.
The point of this type of prayer practice is to clear your mind so God can speak to you."unbiblical" practice.
Eventually your supposed to be able to blank your mind totally and get into the silence and you will have a mystical experience, people who have done this, experience a manifestation called a Kundalini Awakening, which is tied to the Hindu religion. This practice is almost exactly the same as the pagan practice of Hinduism, and the Occult. They both use this technique to have an experience, thinking they are experiencing God but they are going into a spiritual realm that is not of God, but of seducing spirits.
I have personally interviewed someone who I have come into contact with that practices contemplative prayer, he believes he is a christian, and he believes that you can talk to God when you do this, he gets messages, I have warned him about the realm he is in and he agreed but as long as you know your bible you can protect yourself from deceiving spirits. I disagree due to the fact they will just tell you lies until they touch on something outside of your realm of knowledge and be able to deceive you....
One of the things these authors teach is to say a scripture over and over, bring it down to a single word, and say it over and over, the whole point is to get you to bring you into an altered state of consciousness.
But acording to the word of God we are to be thinking, and to contemplate on his word, and to contemplate is to Think, and ponder, and apply it to our lives, These authors say contemplate means to blank, clear our thoughts, and listen to voices...
Find a new church Brother.
Your pastor is playing with Fire.


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howard

 2009/5/25 11:55Profile





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