| Re: What matters most|
Please forgive the slowness of this post response to things raised quite some time ago.
[u]Nathan4Jesus/Neil[/u]: I have no interest in debating the difference between these to men (Haggard and Bentley). Many differences and similarities are quite obvious. I actually looked at the two videos you referenced as well as those linked regarding Bentley. About the Haggard videos: I suppose that one can learn from what occurred in this man's life that [u[sin is not worth it[/u] He and the interviewer focus on that as one point. That would be like hearing a message that Hell is not worth it. There could be a place for such a sermon. [u]What Christ is worth[/u] is a different message that he may also know about and share someplace.
At this point he was expressing his knowledge of having sinned against people (disappointing them, hurting them). Being convicted by the conscience, which all men have, is not being convicted by the Holy Spirit. Sorrow for the pain he has caused people is not David's against You only have I sinned....I have despised the Word of God. All of Israel suffered from the unending wars that followed while David lived.
Something led the leadership of his church to pay money for the counseling and college education of the man he had previously involved in sin but to cut him out of the church and any Colorado employment on this second occasion. Many lessons there on both sides that leadership could expound on. Confession and restitution as far as the sin? What is the view of restoration? etc.
[u][b]What I am principally moved to respond to in this thread is what Jesus-is-God posted[/u][/b] - Quote: [i]We'll never know this equality of attributes or this constant Balance without a true Revelation of GOD. GOD help us to See You - to seek You until we do have an Isaiah type 'seeing' of You in Your Fullness by revelation of Your Word ... [/i]
I have recently come across two things you really might appreciate (and others) if you have not already come across them:
GOD IS THE TRUTH. The Bible is the truth about the Truth. The sermons are the truth about the truth about the Truth. Theology, if it is a fundamentalist one, is the truth about the truth about the truth about the Truth. And because of so much scaffolding around the Truth, because of the multitude of words, the truth is drowned. I wish you to meet God Himself, in the year which stands before us. -Richard Wurmbrand
This selection from a message by [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28833&forum=34 ]Art Katz: Sent from God[/url] Jan 2006. How God has used throughout the ages the death of self and revival that is pictured in Isa 6. I appreciated Katz pointing out God in Christ/Christ in God in this passage. At times I wonder how much prophets understand of what they say. I know our Father feeds His servants. Whatever the case is, Isaiah had no difficulty in proclaiming the coming Messiah lifted up in two ways.
These things inform prayer, (personal, for my fellowship and for our gathering in Barnsdall). To know our need, to see the Holocaust before us, thousands of concentration camps filled with starving ones, bulging eyes straining for any scrap of life, hope, water, food. The name of the camp, the name of the human commander currently ruling over that camp are of no matter. God must come and that's the end of it.
| 2009/5/19 19:24||Profile|
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes
| Re: Steve |
I personally do not support or endorse the man or ministry in question, nor do i believe in many of the alleged occurences. However people can LOSE there healing through no fault of the ADMINISTER. Jesus told the man at bethesda to go and sin no more lest a more DRASTIC THING COME UPON YOU.
ALSO CONSIDER THAT Lazurus WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD ( BEING DEAD NOW SOME 4 Days ) preachers often have him being dead 3 days....but had they bothered to actually "look up" the text they are preaching, they would clearly see he was dead 4 days - and not three. But anyhow ... consider lazarus was EFFECTIVELY healed by the Son of God on that day!! Only to die again later. At a latter point ... down the track. I believe (and no great revelation here, on my part) that The person healed must take responsibility also. Otherwise he comes back and sees his house empty swept, and garnished, and taketh with him...seven other spirits more nasty than himself. And the latter end is worse with him, than the former end!I just thought to throw that into the mix being a bit of a wobbly one - i know, but nonetheless a veritable true fact -- and one that goes along with the discussions thus far, at hand!!!
Truly a selah, food 4 thought, pause and think moment. (I'd say) :-x
| 2009/5/19 20:33||Profile|
| Re: Know of any false prophets who repented?|
Since the discussion deals with false prophets, I want to ask a question:
How often do FALSE prophets repent, come back to Christian orthodoxy? Yes, I have heard of Christians who backslid, then repented, but they were not false teachers in the Biblical sense. As I think about this, I do not know of any. And since this is the case I assume the answer is it doesn't happen OR I am ignorant. Which one is it?
| 2009/5/19 20:50||Profile|
| Re: |
"I believe (and no great revelation here, on my part) that The person healed must take responsibility also. Otherwise he comes back and sees his house empty swept, and garnished, and taketh with him...seven other spirits more nasty than himself" sonofthunder
I agree that the people who were misled are also culpable. I agree with Carter Conlon and Paul Washer who say that some of these prophets are judgment on a church with itching ears that seeks their own needs and wants. Paul the Apostle said that people who heard a Gospel different from the one he preached put up with it easy enough as I stated in a previous post. Paul's Gospel, the true Gospel, did not suit their wants and needs so they looked to false teachers to tell them what they wanted to hear. Paul called them 'super apostles' and they are here today just as are those who can't deal with a truth that challenges the basic tenets of selfishness and flesh in them. Judgment begins in the house of God and God will let this falseness continue up until the false prophet and anti-christ arrive. At that point I believe He will have shown His Church all they need to know about un-Biblical charlatans and their haenous misdeeds. It's judgment but it is also His mercy that shows those willing to take heed to look to Him and not man for their provision and joy.
I had a woman come up to me at work one time and tell me something pretty edifying. We didn't know eachother that well just exchanged pleasantries and small talk. This was right around the time of Lakeland and she said to me "I don't know what your religious beliefs are but I feel I should tell you this. I was at an auction with my husband and out of the blue a lady and her husband asked me if I had back problems. I said yes I have a disc problem in my lower back (she surmised that the lady must have noticed something when she walked). The lady said 'you know if two are in agreement God can work in your life, would you mind if I prayed for you?' The lady from my work said 'not at all'. So the woman placed her hand on ther back and prayed. The lady from work noticed this lady's husband bowing his head in prayer also. She said that she felt a warm tingling sensation in the area of her back that caused her pain. The lady praying asked 'do you feel anything' which she responded 'yes I do'. The praying lady said 'God bless you' then she and her husband just walked away silently. The lady at my work said it was very subtle and tasteful and that she has had little to no back pain since. I talked to her today and she was praising Christ that she could move better and was thankful for the mobility she had as God keeps putting people with her who are much worse off physically. I belive she was a Christian before this, but the event took her to a whole different place.
I guess what I think I've learned from all this is that God is not a showy, pretentious, limelighting stage presence. He is meek, humble, and subtle in power and generosity. Although He is not totally void of being provoked by a wayward church, He is gentle with those lambs who are not looking just to see what He can do for them.
As I have said before, I believe in the gifts of healing and believe it is here today with those who are willing to accept and exercise it for His glory. But this type of healing ministry like the one above I believe is very much under the radar so the church doesn't get puffed up with boastful and prideful success. God knows how easily we will give ourselves credit for His work. We will take something very simple, yet powerful, and take it to the extreme so we can let the world know how special we are. Jesus didn't do the things our so-called prophets do today. The paradox of His anointing as the Son of God was that the power of the Father in heaven was wrapped up in a humble and meek nature that put His Father first. Many times He told those not to say anything of His works even though they couldn't help themselves in praising God to others. He let the Father dictate the action of those who received the power of His father. He didn't take the stage on the Mount of Olives to give God's people a healing and manefestation show. He preached the truth that got Him killed.
The gifts of the Spirit are certainly here but they won't be displayed like a secular stage show and an invitation for everyone to come and get a piece of heavenly pie. He wants us on a personal level first and foremost and He wants our faith to stand firm event if we can't see His works and power in action.
Paul the Apostle said that the OT Prophets searched for the end result of their calling but some did not see the promise of the Messiah to us. This is faith, this is God's work... His plan. Some had no idea that they were speaking of us, they just trusted without manefestation or validation. God has a plan and it's not a quick, flashy, and massive 'now moment'. It's simply subtle, patient, and perfect.
| 2009/5/19 21:56|
| Re: |
I beg of you, please NEVER EVER doubt that I don't love you with the Love of Jesus that comes along with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, and as you dear brothers and sisters know, we were baptized in ONE Spirit, One Christ, One God, One Church, which is the Body of Christ, and anything that veers from such riches, such unity, tears the heart out of my chest, and grieves me to the point of despair, but fully recognizing that God is Sovereign, He searches all hearts, all motives, and I fear for those who approach the "altar" bearing "strange fire", for it is a terrible thing to fall underneath an angry God. Terrible to the point that once stout legs turn into jello, and hearts melt.
Many of you were not members of this forum when Neil and I were first here. There is a looooong history of "Neil and Krispy"... and unfortunately it was quite ugly at the outset. Mike (crsschk) can attest to the truth of that statement.
Neil and I clashed on almost everything, and we both acted immaturely... and the moderators had to step in numerous times. I'm not proud of that.
But over time we both gave each other second chance after second chance. God intervened somewhere along the line, and began to reveal each of us to each other.
Now, several years later I can tell everyone here that on this forum Neil is my best friend, my brother, my comrade, my warrior partner... and I love the guy.
We may never meet on this earth, but when I get to heaven (once I get up off my face) I am going searching for Neil (if he beats me there). If when y'all get to heaven and you can't find Neil and I... it's because we're out on a fishing trip somewhere with Peter.
I say all that because I want to demonstrate for everyone here that we can all disagree on something, but still have great love in our hearts for each other.
There were many great friendships in the Bible... David and Jonathon, the disciples, etc... and today it's Neil and Krispy.
May we all learn to disagree with love in our hearts.
| 2009/5/20 8:28|
| Krisp...that just warmed my heart and made my day.|
usually I never go near this computer, until I've had a session of early morning devotional Scripture reading. (I've been deep into Philippians and Colossians for about three weeks now, peeling off attributes of these epistles and writing them down)
but I had left the computer on last night, it went to sleep, and was blinking, so I just figured I could quickly check the price of wheat, cattle, and silver. (btw, they're all going higher) and something just made me come on to SI for a second.
and this post just warmed my heart like you wouldnt believe. But a person CAN believe it, because thats an attribute of the Gospel, in that being knit together in the Ministry of Christ and Him Crucified, coming to live in our hearts, building us into [b]"living stones"[/b] most of the time thats done thru local fellowships and congregations, and other times, we redeem the internet, by forming such deep abiding kinship such as dear Krispy and I have, he is my best friend on this forum. (I'm quitely building other such kinships on this forum as well, Praise God)
A dear man he is, and even though you might say, we disagree on a lot of stuff, I respectfully disagree. We're both military veterans (with all of the mindset that goes along with that), we love the Word, the Bible,(he reads the KJV, I read the ESV, only cause I cant understand the KJV) we love Jesus and we cant abide when strange preachers come in and bring reproach to the witness of Christ, we both love our babies and their mothers, we both love the rural mountain life (and he knows underneath it all, I am a "redneck", just a yankee-fied version) We both love the house prayer meeting, or house Bible study, I could go on and on...but I won't. Krispy's a dear dear friend, a bestest friend, and you wrote:
We may never meet on this earth
brother, I'm not a friend who "puts" themselves on people, but something tells me we will, and we'll just have a grand time, we can split some wood for you, a cord or two, I'll buy some fatted calf, we can torture it on the grill, we can sit at the table with open Bibles, and compare favorite bits of Scripture, have a impromptu prayer meeting, and who knows, maybe God will take mercy on us, give us a fresh Holy Ghost baptism right then and there. It'd be a grand time in the fellowship of Jesus...who knows, maybe I might have a few extra shekels, and if He leads us, I'll rent a big tent, and we can hold an old-time Tent meeting, and would to God, He lead some of the worst sinners in the county to the tent, to get gloriously saved.
wouldnt that be something?
now thats a good time, make farwood, grill beef, study the Word, pray, hold a tent meeting and see people coming to Jesus....now thats my idea of an good earthly visit...plus I know the 'rule' about houseguests and fish, after 4 days..........(lol)
Oh Trooper, you made my day bright! dear brother Steve, how I love you in me and in the Lord.
off to the Jiffy Lube, and the doctor, I'm hurting.
in Jesus' love, neil
ps...You know I didnt respond to this thread to rattle your cage, I was just saying what the Spirit was saying in my heart, which is that I want to BE Church, not "do church".....n.
| 2009/5/20 10:15|
| Re: Krisp...that just warmed my heart and made my day.|
Amen brother! Should the Lord bring us together in this lifetime we will definately reintroduce animal sacrifices on the alter of fire... lol!
Love ya bro...
| 2009/5/20 11:23|
| Re: |
Tony Miano (the lawman chronicles) preaching outside Todd Bently's event in L.A.
speaks for itself
I find it interesting that the only songs sung by the group are CCM's top 10's...
| 2009/5/30 12:21|