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Discussion Forum : General Topics : PEOPLE DIE AFTER BEING “HEALED” IN THE LAKELAND OUTPOURING

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 Re:

"The main thing that I have a problem with most of you brothers is that you say Todd Bentley was never born again. I believe that if many of you knew the actual facts of his childhood, and what he came out of when he first received the Lord, you would be of a different opinion." Abide in Him

Wait a second here.... you said we will know by their fruit. You can't have it both ways. You can't say the issues with his affair and divorce is a 'complicated issue' then caution us to look at the fruit as you did in your original post. The issue doesn't seem complicated at all when when we look at the fruit of this. Here's the fruit as it stands now Abide: terminally ill people were not healed when they said the were, people believed he was living a righteous life when he was on the stage, he took money from thousands of people knowing that he was having an affair, he never once came out on stage in Lakeland and spoke the truth about his current situation.... he premeditatedly hid it from those who came and he hid it until it was evident he was caught, he subsequently divorced his wife and remarried the woman he was having an affair with while he was healing others. There's your fruit. Whether it's 'complicated' or not isn't the issue. There is no such thing as complicated bad fruit. It's not like his infidelity and divorce was several years before Lakeland. The affair was going on while he was on stage. Come now.

Let me ask you this: Why do you think God allowed all this to happen? Meaning the exposure of the situation and the revelation of false promises made. Who benefits more from this? Todd Bentley who is being restored by a man who says there is and eighth church of revelation and has a history of very questionable and unbiblical doctrines? Or all those who dismissed someone who brought a different Gospel and false promises to thousands upon thousands of people? I prayed for Bentley while this was going on that he would come out of the deception and reveal exactly what this false prophetic movement is all about and how they operate. I still hope this happens. But I believe God had mercy on all those whose itching ears were willing to accept anything unbiblical as long as it made them feel good, gave them some kind of anointing, or gave them weird extra biblical manifestations. He's telling them something and it's a forewarning for those to take heed for future events like this.

I know about the facts of his childhood, I was once a sexual abuse and molestation investigator and have interviewed many children and many perpetrators. It's horribly evil. But that alone doesn't tell me about their salvation. I heard about him being delivered from drugs and I believe God can do this. But this is only a testimony, everyone has a testimony, even Ted Haggard has a salvation testimony. If you're looking at the testimony surrounding his salvation and not the un-bilical doctrines then I have to disagree with your whole premise. He's a troubled soul but he's not a prophet nor a faith healer. This part of his situation needs to be address before more people are hurt. The facts of his personal life need to be prayed for and he needs much prayer and good guidance. Rick Joyner is not that guidance. But his troubled life doesn't preclude dishonesty and sordid gain while teaching a different Jesus and a different Gospel than the one I read. That's the bottom line for me. As tragic and complicated Bentley's life is, so are all those lame and ill people and their families who had hope in someone who was falsely proclaiming gifts and giving them a defferent Gospel.

 2009/5/19 12:59









 Steve

Bentley was false, we agree on that, he's been exposed, Praise God.

but what just mystifies me is when you say this:

Quote:
Haggard taught and held to orthodox Biblical doctrine



"held to"? You are going to actually tell me that a man, who has committed to undertake one of the most serious callings in a believers life, that is to pastor a congregation, and preach the Gospel to them, dares play with the Things of God, by proclaiming the Good News of Jesus out of a mouth that has been used to committ homosexual fornication on a regular and frequent basis, meth addiction on a regular and frequent basis, and thats "holding to" orthodox Biblical doctrine?

please, see the light, see the hypocrisy, see the lie of such a witness, its not only a "flaw", its [b]false and counterfeit [/b] as well, don't you see that?

What rebellion! and the saddest part is this; the secular world, those who are lost, just saw Bentley as a joke, but they saw Haggard as a pure unvarnished hypocrite, false, as he was one of the leading voices from the Church against homosexual "marriage", which just hardens into cement their own wrongheaded views that "christians" are just phony, false self-righteous gameplayers. They dont see the countless saints, pastors, layleaders who labor anonymously and faihfully to bring the Gospel to a dead and dying world. That wouldnt suit the devil, he needs the press and their filthy quest for gossip and dirty laundry to feed to the lost. he needs the bentleys and haggards, who play with God, then get exposed, and delight the secular media with "more copy".

please see that, and then do a word association with folks who aint right with God, ask them what word comes to their minds right after you say the word, "evangelical".

My guess is that the results would tear our hearts in two, which is why, those of us who deign to "steady the Ark", go into ministry, pray for revival, and ascend the hill of Lord, must have "clean hands and a pure heart". That's an absolute prerequiste for ministry, along with the humble admission that ANY man or woman in Christ can stumble and fall, therefore it is good and wise to stay grounded in a disciplined private prayer life always, yielded obedient, burnt out dead to self.

and ccrider, God bless you brother, but after I read the word "RIDICOLOUS" directed to my post....there would be little fruit in a counterresponse, so (sigh) you're "right", ridiculous.

God love ya Stevie, I do, neil

 2009/5/19 13:28









 Re:

By their fruit you shall know them. A good tree bears good fruit... a bad tree bad fruit.

The fruit will be the same for all Christians regardless of whether you grew up in a trailer park being sexually abused your whole childhood, or you grew up in a quiet country church.

If you're saved the fruit of the Spirit spoken of in scripture will be manifested in your life.

I'm tired of hearing excuses for a believer's sinful behavior based on one's childhood. Thats just American culture... blame everything and everyone else, dont take responsibility for your own behavoir.

By their fruit you shall know them.

Krispy

 2009/5/19 13:34









 Re: Steve

To clarify for you Neil... when I said "held to" orthodoxy, I merely meant that he "held to" orthodoxy in his teaching and preaching. And I believe he truly thinks that what he preached was true... but he fell into sin.

Thats different from Bentley. He didn't know the truth and certainly didnt preach the truth. He preached another gospel.

Love you too, Neil... but ccrider is right.

Krispy

 2009/5/19 13:41









 okay.

Stevie,

let me bless you and ccrider...ready?

you both are "right", I'm "wrong". :-)

or as my brother Paul so majestically said,

Quote:
When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; when slandered, we entreat. We have become, and are still, like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things.



neil

 2009/5/19 13:52









 Re: Steve

Natan4Jesus, I don't believe Krispy was cherry picking at all or anyone else concering Bentley vs Haggard. I thought the allegation was 'without much merit'. We can debate the similarities and/or differences but I thought the cherry picking was a bit strong. The Bentley event is only a year old and somewhat fresh in some people's minds.

Perhaps the ridiculous comment was an overblown response, but the cherry picking allegation was also over the top. We all pick our battles, this is one that I have beaten my head against the wall over trying to get people to see the harm of this event.

I agree with you with the damage Ted Haggard has done as well. What you said was about him I think is dead on. But the thread was about Bentley's ministry and the tragedy of lost hope and lost lives. Had it been a Ted Haggard thread I would not have accused anyone of cherry picking by not mentioning Bentley. Bless you brother.

 2009/5/19 13:57









 Re: okay.

Natan4Jesus, dude you're okay!!!! Thanks for being gracious with this. You spoke truth and were not wrong in the points you made concerning Haggard. I think we're on the same page more than not, and if not that's fine too brother. I think I understand your motive which is certainly genuine.

 2009/5/19 14:02









 Re: okay.

blessings on you too, Floor-Us! (wink)

Krispy

 2009/5/19 14:09
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

No one will have(EDIT would rather say 'ever has' instead of will) anything to worry about, whose words and actions are wrought in God.





[i]Edit I meant the above in the general context of this thread and discussions like it[/i]


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/5/19 17:45Profile









 Brothers and Sisters

Krispy, CCrider, ChrisJD and many others,

I beg of you, please NEVER EVER doubt that I don't love you with the Love of Jesus that comes along with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, and as you dear brothers and sisters know, we were baptized in ONE Spirit, One Christ, One God, One Church, which is the Body of Christ, and anything that veers from such riches, such unity, tears the heart out of my chest, and grieves me to the point of despair, but fully recognizing that God is Sovereign, He searches all hearts, all motives, and I fear for those who approach the "altar" bearing "strange fire", for it is a terrible thing to fall underneath an angry God. Terrible to the point that once stout legs turn into jello, and hearts melt.

We should and must pray that we never "play" games with God. Yes, He is patient and long suffering, but rue the Day when He says ENOUGH.

May God have mercy on these men we have spoke of, and may he strengthen the weak and feeble knees of the faithful servants who labor with fidelity and honesty in this Ministry of Reconciliation thru Jesus, His Son, and our Savior, amen.

love, neil

 2009/5/19 19:04





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