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rnieman
Member



Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 146


 Drunkards and Heaven

I thought I would shoot out a question. When dealing with drug addicts, alcoholics, porn addicts, etc.... When they receive Christ, should we see their addiction depart? If so, how long shall we expect before we see the departure from the addiction?
1 corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous,[b]nor drunkards[/b], nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God

Revelation 21:8
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,[b]and whoremongers[/b] , and sorcerers,[b]and idolaters[/b] , and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Mathew 7:21-23

21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; '[u][b]DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.[/b][/u]

Galatians 5:18-21
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are:immorality, impurity, sensuality,

20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger,disputes, dissensions, factions,

21 envying,drunkenness, carousing, and things like these,[u][b]of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.[/b][/u]

1 John 3:8-9

8 the one who [b]practices sin [/b] is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

9 No one who is born of God [b]practices sin[/b], because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Some clues in scripture: like seasons, and fruit bearing:

Luke 13:1-9

1 Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?

3 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

4 "Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?

5 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

6 And He began telling this parable: "A man had
a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.

7 "And he said to the vineyard-keeper,[b] 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any.[/b]. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'

8 "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;

9 and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"



rnieman





 2009/5/15 21:26Profile









 Re: Drunkards and Heaven

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous,nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Seems simple enough, doesn't it.
I believe we fail new converts by not sharing such verses with them or even 'while' witnessing in His Love.
"If you Love ME." None of the above are physical addictions except for the alcohol, though many will argue that point, but this question can only be answered on a person to person basis.
How did this person come to Christ? Was it that they've had no discipling? Have they someone to pray over them? Are they alone because they can't find fellowship and the strength that comes from the rest of the Body?
But then again, Watchman Nee told a story of a man that he had won to the LORD and this man and his wife were accustomed to drinking with their meals. Nee said nothing of the drink and left that Village.
When Nee returned to that Village, the topic of the drinking came up and the new convert said that "Resident Boss said, "No more.""
Yet, Paul [i]did[/i] have to go "remind" those in Corinth and waited till chpt 5 to address it. That's a puzzler.


Well, I didn't like seeing your thread having no replies. :-)

GOD Bless!

 2009/5/16 14:08
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3394
East TN (for now)

 Re: Drunkards and Heaven

Quote:
rnieman wrote:
I thought I would shoot out a question. When dealing with drug addicts, alcoholics, porn addicts, etc.... When they receive Christ, should we see their addiction depart? If so, how long shall we expect before we see the departure from the addiction?



I minister inside the jail (they are addicted to something if not drugs or alcohol) and I humbly ask you to not put a date on someone's freedom. It seems like you are judging them by all the Scriptures you have posted along with your question.

You don't have to answer these to me but let me ask you this...
When you were saved, were you miraculously set-free from every sin that plagued you?
How long have you been saved?
Were you always free from lust?
If not, how long did it take to be free from it?
Have you been addicted to anything in your life?
Are you the same Christian today as you were the year after you were converted?
Or are you a more mature, dedicated Christian?
How long has it taken for you to finally get to this place?
If it's taken you "this long" (say, 20 years), don't you think you should have patience with others who are first saved?

My spiritual mentor always said, "Give them as much time as God has given you. Is God finished with you yet?"

Mark 9:35 [i]And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.[/i]
Mark 10:31 [i]But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.[/i]

We who think we are going to be first because of our wonderful and good behavior may just end up being last. But actually, it may have more to do with "preferring one another;" (Rom 12.10) even the drunkard.

God bless,


_________________
Lisa

 2009/5/16 19:21Profile
rnieman
Member



Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 146


 Re:

I apologize if my question came off as if I was putting a time limit on someones salvation. That was not my intention. I was from that back ground and claimed Christ for several years while being bond to drugs. I was set free from drugs and all the sins associated with that lifestyle almost instantly when I believe I was "really truly saved". When I look back at my own life I see that the first several years were actually a "struggle of faith", but was not saved during that time. That was the main reason for my question. When you really look at the nature of that sin, it dominates your life. I had to ask myself how can you be a Christian, when Christ is to dominate your life, not sin. I am not saying everyones road to salvation is the same, and understand the sanctification process as well, I was just looking for bench marks to look for as clues. Thank you to both for your insight. rnieman

 2009/5/17 20:13Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

I'm sure that you are aware of this but it would be a good reminder to note that the Holy Spirit works in diverse ways. The Spirit of course leads all men to the Lord Jesus Christ but not all in the same way. The work of the Spirit does not always go forward at the same speed in all hearts. In some cases progress may be very slow indeed, yet may be very real and true.

We must remember this while forming opinions of other Christians. If their experience doesn't match our own we might be too quick to declare that they are not on the narrow path. Remember, the fastest runner does not always win the race, steady and sure is often the most enduring.

Of course the fast and enduring runner is best, but it just doesn't always work out that way. Better a little grace than none.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2009/5/17 20:28Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7469
Mississippi

 Re: Drunkards and Heaven

rnieman,

To answer your question I would suggest that you keep reading these forums. You will find people sharing their struggles, among other things.

Let me tell you a true story about my uncle who is now 87 years old.

He is an WW2 veteran, grew up and was abused by his dad when he was at home. While he was in the war, his dad saw the error of his way and wrote him an apology. Upon arriving home his father met him with tears...but he was still not a Christian. Several years later Uncle became a Christian and with that he lost all desire for tobacco and has never smoked since. I asked Uncle why some struggle with this after they become a Christian. He told me he had no idea, but he knew what the LORD did for him and was ever so grateful.

Seems to me one cannot confine God to a rigid set of rules on how he will deal with people. However, I would guess the biggest obstacle is total surrender on the part of the individual. And God will not run over people, He waits. He wants cooperation that comes from a heart that loves to submit to an authority that is other then himself.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

EDIT: I suggest you read the Psalms. David wrote most of them. It reads like a journal, detailing ones walk with God. You may find your answers there.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/5/17 21:29Profile
rnieman
Member



Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 146


 Re:

Thank you ginnyrose and Ron. Some great insight, I thank you for it. rnieman

 2009/5/18 10:29Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3394
East TN (for now)

 Re:

Quote:
rnieman wrote:
I apologize if my question came off as if I was putting a time limit on someones salvation. That was not my intention. I was from that back ground and claimed Christ for several years while being bond to drugs. I was set free from drugs and all the sins associated with that lifestyle almost instantly when I believe I was "really truly saved". When I look back at my own life I see that the first several years were actually a "struggle of faith", but was not saved during that time. That was the main reason for my question. When you really look at the nature of that sin, it dominates your life. I had to ask myself how can you be a Christian, when Christ is to dominate your life, not sin. I am not saying everyones road to salvation is the same, and understand the sanctification process as well, I was just looking for bench marks to look for as clues. Thank you to both for your insight. rnieman


Rnieman, I just saw this... sorry. I wasn't angry when I wrote that because I am wondering myself about things like that. I see some of these girls go in and out, like a revolving door; out of jail, back in; out of jail; back in.

The only commonality that I find from talking to them is not the drug itself or the drink itself but the friends they hang with. I think if they could be taken out of their element, things would and God could work easier.

I know for the first part of my Christian life I was a carnal Christian. On the outside, I was a very good attendee of church, was there three days a week; I know I was doing the best that I could at that time but I was not walking in faith. I was sleeping with my boyfriend; I knew it was wrong but I wasn't strong in that area. I cannot say I wasn't saved because the Lord spoke with me and lead me here and there.

I wouldn't dare say that any one is NOT saved. Only the Lord knows these answers, we are called to love and pray; that's it!!

God bless you rnieman!!


_________________
Lisa

 2009/5/19 20:53Profile





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