SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Authentic Biblical Christianity.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : General Topics : Your Opinion: Whats wrong with the church?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Your Opinion: Whats wrong with the church?

I really like the opinions of the majority of everyone that comes here to S.I. (as far as I can tell atleast).

What would you say is the greatest problem with the church today?

Two requirements:
1) You must have scripture to back it up.
2) You must explain your thought.

I really look forward to what you guys have to say!!!

 2004/8/22 16:40









 Re: Your Opinion: Whats wrong with the church?

I'll share something Ron Luce preached on last night in a session here on campus. He was talking about how many churches and youth groups are mere social clubs with pizza and games rather then being militant armies plundering the devil. I completely agreed. One main difference that he pointed out was how in a club you have to beg people to come back. Youth Pastors say "Oh please come back next week, we'll have free pizza. Oh please don't sleep with your girl friend, please dont sin," and they try to simply occupy kids times so that they don't sin. In an army however the commander would say "Please[b]do not[/b]come back if your not willing to give it your all. Don't even think about coming back if your not willing to die for this cause and sacrifice everything that you have".

"Christ did not die so we could have a club" Ron Luce.

SO basicly, we have forgotten that Christianity is a military force and CHristian are to be disciplined soldiers.

Scripture: 2 Tim 2:3 "You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ."

 2004/8/22 21:35
Yodi
Member



Joined: 2004/4/23
Posts: 663
Escondido, California

 Re: Your Opinion: Whats wrong with the church?

On here, we complain about how other Christians aren't doing things right. "They're too this" or "They're not enough of that". Why are we so busy pointing out, dissecting, and broadcasting others' "wrong" way of doing things? It's like arguing siblings on here sometimes; "Daddy, did you see what he/she did?!"

"For we dare not class ourselves or compare ourselves with those who commend themselves. But they, measuring themselvs by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise" (2 Corinthians 10:12).

I see this in a few topics, sometimes, in which case I've pretty much decided to stay silent. Don't like to be a part of stirring up strife. Otherwise, I believe this site edifies, teaches, and encourages those from around the whole world that come across it. I pray for this ministry and know that God will continue to use it.


_________________
Yolanda Fields

 2004/8/25 14:09Profile









 Re:

This was by no means a place I wanted for people to come and complain about the church or their pastors etc etc. But certainly something is wrong and it will never be fixed until we recognize it. All I know is that something is wrong. But what is it? Why don't we see the glory of God the way the early church did? Why don't we see the same type revivals that wesley, whitfield, finney, and the rest of them saw? I've only one life to live and I feel that I'm missing out. We are all missing out! There is still more to be had, more of Christ to be known. Why aren't we where we need to be? Whats wrong with the church? Whats wrong with us? Whats wrong with me?

All I know is that there has to be more. There has to be more to Christianity then what I've yet to see and experience! Oh God let there be more!!

 2004/8/25 14:52
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: church

Hi Jesse,

you can refer to my post under "God is Jealous For us" for my answer. Unsurrendered souls, people hanging onto their own wills and rights. Humanism in a nutshell.

Blessings, Chanin


_________________
Chanin

 2004/8/25 14:58Profile
Yodi
Member



Joined: 2004/4/23
Posts: 663
Escondido, California

 Re:

Quote:
Why don't we see the glory of God the way the early church did? Why don't we see the same type revivals that wesley, whitfield, finney, and the rest of them saw? I've only one life to live and I feel that I'm missing out. We are all missing out! There is still more to be had, more of Christ to be known. Why aren't we where we need to be? Whats wrong with the church? Whats wrong with us? Whats wrong with me?

All I know is that there has to be more. There has to be more to Christianity then what I've yet to see and experience! Oh God let there be more!!



God does different works at different times. It's not up to us to say that one work is more glorifying to God than another, I don't think. Did Caleb & Joshua complain how they should've been in the Promise Land and not wandering around in the desert with the rest of the Isrealites? Did Joseph moan about not seeing God's glory in the treatment from his family when he had dreams about them bowing down to him, when he was sold into slavery, when he was injustly thrown into jail and then forgotten after interpreting a dream? There are several examples all over the Old Testament of faithful servants who had to live in dark, godless times. But they were there for a reason. There's times of building and tearing down, of drought and famine, and rain and harvest, of winning battles, and of losing battles, of being accepted, and of being rejected.

Despite the times, God knows what He's doing. You're not in the wrong place at the wrong time. And that's just how I feel about that. I like to take each day at a time, not trying to understand or figure out what God's doing, but just being faithful and trusting that He's in control and that He sees the big picture.


_________________
Yolanda Fields

 2004/8/25 18:40Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Your Opinion: Whats wrong with the church?



What's wrong with the Church? ... Christ answered this in the Revelation, His love letter to us -which so many of us refuse to read/heed ... He says ...


Rev. 2

[1] Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
[4] I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
[5] Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
[7] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;

The admonition given to the Ephesian church was to return to her first love, that of promoting the pure worship of Christ alone, the simple spreading of His Gospel, and the sharing of His Charity to one another, the poor, and not to the dreams of personal dynasty building leadership, or solely unto ourselves ... This simplicity of Christ easy yoke is the same predominant message for overcoming the Nicolaitan type doctrine (addressed further below) and heirarchy so prevalent in our generation ... The spirit of the Nicolaitans will always be accompanied by the spirit of apathy and lethargy regarding anything outside it's own little insular world ... Such selfish, self centered, and incestuous preoccupation within ourselves, and our group, will eventually cool our affections toward our Lord, and our passion to carry out His purposes, because we're to busy carying out our own ... Many of us have allowed ourselves to concentrate our total focus on our doctrinal hobby horses, our denominations and it's human leadership, and have clearly loss sight of the righteous attributes of Spirit appointed leadership ... God help the man or woman sent of Him to roll away the stones of whited selpulchers! ... In fact some of us have become so brainwashed under Nicolaitan doctrine we've become denominational zombies, of little or no use to the true leader of Christ Church, the Holy Spirit ... In fact i'd venture to say that there are many saints today who haven't the slightest idea who the God the Holy Ghost really is, and/or what He does, and wants to do, and that primarily is whats wrong with THE CHURCH OF CHRIST!


[12] And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
[14] I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication ...


Balaam was a priest of Israel, but if one takes the time to read the account in Numbers 22 he or she will find that Balaam preached to Balac, i.e. the Moabites, for MONEY. Many churches today concentrate more on fund raisers, pledges of money, pass the plate, building funds, etc., etc., than on teaching God's Word. What they do falsely teach and emphasize is that you will be "blessed by God" if you give or send them money... as in the more you give them the more He will bless you! Ah, Balaam lives on! You know at one point Balaam had his ass so loaded with "donations" that God intervened with an angel and had the ass speak to Balaam to bring him to his senses. Jesus has a problem with money grubbing preachers and mammon for hire prophets casting stumbling blocks before His Church ...


[15] So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.


The term “Nicolaitans” is derived from two greek words ...“Nikos" and “Laos” ... Nikos is defined as: a conquest; victory; triumph; to conquer; and by implication, dominancy over the defeated ... The word "nicao" literally means; to
dominate-intimidate-manipulate. Additionally, the term "laos" means "the people” or the “laity” ... Thus exacting the phrase “to conquer
(dominate-intimidate-manipulate) the people (laity).

The Nicolaitan movement marked the beginning of an unrighteous priesthood in the church, blatant within the Roman Church, and much more masked in Protestantism, but regardless is still there ... The first item on the Nicolaitan agenda is to divide in order to conquer ... The primary objective of the Nicolaitan spirit is the separation of the Body from the Lord’s provision for leadership, and the insight given through that spiritual authority, namely the Holy Ghost Himself, the true and only LEADER of each individual Christian, and corporate Body of Christ ...

The Nicolaiatan usurption of power separates people into the priest class and laity advocating the "us and them" philosophy ... But there is no place in the Word (after the inception of the Church age) where priests or ministers have to mediate between God and the people, nor is there a place where they are separated in their worship of the Lord ... God desires all to love and serve Him together ... Nicolaitanism destroys those precepts and instead separates the ministers from the people by making them leaders and overlords, instead of servants ... Our Lord expressed His hatred for this type of administration and expects His people to do likewise ... In other words, there is to be no intimidating, controlling, power-hungry officers in the Church Body exercising counterfeit authority over the “layman” ... Scriptures plainly supports a Priesthood of Believers, EACH of us being granted access to the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ ... “ You are a CHOSEN RACE, a royal PRIESTHOOD, a HOLY NATION, a PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;” (1 Pet 2:9)

The Early Church, beginning with the Ephesian Chuch Age, confronted this form of opposition following the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, and we today are to do the same ... But do we? ... The doctrine of the Nocolaiatan replaces the headship of the Holy Ghost with that of mankind, and it is also historically known that such ones were also prone to love of mammon, and prone to sexual indiscretion ...

2Tim.3
[1] This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
[2] For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
[3] Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
[4] Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
[5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
[6] For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

Sound familar ... to familiar?

[16] Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
[17] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;



[18] And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who
[20] I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
[21] And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
[22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
[29] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


From my readings in the OT regarding Jezebel she was a bewitching, conniving, sexually alluring, murdering, usurper of authority over masculinity, beginning with her husband Ahab ... Jezebel always reminds me of the scripture that says ... But the following excerpt from a link also provided further clarifys ...


The Characteristics of the Jezebel Spirit
http://www.jonhamilton.org/jezebel.htm

Quote:
A Jezebel spirit seeks control through manipulation. It has a deep hatred of true spiritual authority, and uses emotional pressure, witchcraft and obsessive sensuality in its pursuit of power. It uses subtle persuasion to gain influence and get close to those in control. It then uses this position to gradually dominate.

In the Hebrew, the name Jezebel means literally "without cohabitation". She will not live or "cohabit" with those she cannot dominate and control. She will have no equals. Control is what Jezebel wants more than anything. Even when Jezebel appears to be submissive, it is usually out of a carefully wrought plan to gain influence.

Although it may be common to refer to Jezebel as "she", we obviously must conclude that as a spirit, Jezebel is gender neutral. Jezebel certainly has as many male slaves as female. However, since Jezebel initially tends to establish control without the actual use of physical force, she is more easily associated with classic feminine persuasion techniques.

Jezebel likes to appear close to leaders, and use their influence. She likes to use the power and influence of others to accomplish her goals and control her environment. In 1 Kings 21:8 we read " Jezebel wrote letters in Ahab’s name and sealed them with his seal, and sent them to the elders and nobles of the city." This is typical of Jezebel. She prefers to remain concealed in the background, while she manipulates situations and leaders.

Jezebel is often associated with pleasure, especially sexual pleasure. She will use any form of sensuality at her disposal to gain influence and control. Jezebel uses sensuality, but make no mistake, Jezebel is seeking CONTROL. Lusts are merely tools used to weaken others in order for her to accomplish her goal of control. In many cases sex is not involved at all.

Jezebel’s greatest enemy is true spiritual authority. As Jezebel opposed Elijah and Herodias opposed John the Baptist, so Jezebel today opposes righteous authority. In her heart, she despises all moral authority. .



And as for Christ next answer to whats wrong with we Christians, and His church, it's been quoted and preached on so much, it's of it's own explanation ...


Rev.3

[14] And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
[15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
[16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
[17] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
[18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
[19] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
[22] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


What's apparently wrong with Christ Church so far is we don't have "ears to hear" the Holy Spirit, so therefore "repentance' is the furthest thing from our mind ... We're full of the world, and sin, some of us oblivious to it, and some of use to well aware of it without a solution of how to get it out ... But don't despair oh faithful remnant, for God has His own way in store of bringing hearing to our ears, and bowing to our knees ... We just haven't met that date in time yet! ... He has everything under His full control, but in the meanwhile be not weary in your own well doing ... Keep on keeping on! ... In Jesus name ... Amen

 2004/8/25 19:08Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:


You know saints the Holy Ghost keeps directing my attention to programs on Christian TV that lets me know not only is He aware of what's wrong with His Bride, but that He's also in the process of fixing it ...

THE THIEVES ARE SOON TO BE DRIVEN FROM HIS TEMPLE/CHURCH ...

i saw a program on WGPH/60 last night where a man of God broke it down as to what has transpired to demise in the Body of Christ ...

He in essence said that denominations/churches/pastors have become businesses, with business plans, that caters to the whims of the congregation, so much in fact as to poll what folk want, and don't want to hear ... Or that the congregations have become pawns to the business of catering to their denominations/ churches/pastors in the building of their empirical whims ...

i of course instantly took this as a confirmation regarding what Chist has against us written in the book of Revelation ... We, His Bride, have the blood of the doctines of Baalam, Nicolas and Jezebel in our skirts, and it screams to high heaven, "UNCLEAN! ... UNCLEAN!

By the mere fact that scripture states "judgment begins in the house of the Lord", assures me that He's gonna clean us up before we can don our wedding dress ...

He already knows what's wrong, and He already knows how to fix it ...



Rev.2
[5] Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

[16] Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

[22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
[23] And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.


Rev.3

[1] And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

[3] Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.


[15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
[16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
[19] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

[22] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


Let us continue to pray, walking circumspectly, that we may be of use to Him as part of His solution, and not part of His problem ... Amen

Soon, and very soon, we are going to see our King ... Soon, and very soon, we are going to see our King ...
Soon, and very soon, we are going to see our King ...

Hallelujah! ... Hallelujah! ...

We're going to see our King!

 2004/8/27 14:54Profile
DezCall
Member



Joined: 2004/7/9
Posts: 315
The Netherlands

 Re: Curse of Compromise

I just want to share something that I read this morning in a Christian Magazine.

As many of you will know by now, I'm from Holland (The Netherlands). 3 years ago God showed me the curse of being a worldly Christian. I had no satisfaction, I felt pretty lonely and God was a burden to me...Finally I saw that it was me and not God who was wrong. I lived in sin and had never met Jesus personally. God wasn't dead, I was dead and therefore I didn't see that God was alive.

Through compromise we lose sight of God. Stepping on the gas and breaks at the same time doesn't work!!! There's no such thing as a worldly Christian. Either your worldly or you're a Christian.

But anyway...I read something about a Youthchurch in my country and their vision to reach the youth. This just shows how they have lost sight of the true God and how they through compromise try to reach the lost. I've tried to translate it, I hope it will read easily.

[i]"We want nothing less then to be attractive and we also call it that way. We want to be an attractive and powerful Church. We want to link up with them (youth) and desire to get acquainted with their kind of language and experiences. The message remains unchanged.

In order to link up with the non-Christian youth as good as possible, we have appointed a team of non-Christians. They share what they do and don't understand. They for example told us that we were too radical with our "choose now" approach. They ask for more patience. That's why we are going to change our services.

The first things that are going to change, will be more recognizable to the secular youth in the future. We start with playing some justified secular music, then we continue with some dramatic art concerning the theme, after that we have a consideration (note: that's some sort of sermon...very often not more than 12 minutes) and we close with a time of worship.

If you immediately start with mentioning the blood of Christ, they just won't understand it. It's even sometimes experienced as being sectaric. [b]We start in the world and end up with God[/b]. In everything may be seen that we act different."[/i]

Some of the things mentioned may sound not that bad. I agree that it's not always the best approach to start pointing out to the blood of Christ, BUT...the problem here is the heart! They're ashamed of the message of Jesus. They don't want the Gospel to be offensive or convincing. It must suit everybody. That's why they appointed a team of non-Christians to say what's good or wrong.

Think about this...They ask a group of people on their way to hell(!) whether they like the service or not!! "Have you enjoyed our service? "Yes". Ok, great..." That just blows my mind...They want to reach the emotions of the youth, they want to get them to Church, but they don't want to reach their hearts!!!!!!! The offence of the cross has ceased (Galatians 5:11). Christianity becomes a sub-culture and a hobby...not a necessity to flee the wrath of God and be cleansed by the blood of Christ. It no longer points out to the necessity to be holy as He is holy because He is worthy! It's all about ME ME and ME...

I believe that with this modern-day-preaching we are responsible for the eternal suffering of millions of souls. We justified every damned sinner and preached them into Heaven and never spoke about the reality of hell. We told about Gods grace and forgot all about repentance! We may want every person to reach Heaven, but if we continue to preach these kind of messages, hearing about Heaven is as close as people will get.

God, give us words to speak to reach this world with Your message. Put Your words in our hearts as we read the Bible! Give us Your Spirit of knowledge and revelation! Give us hearts that only rejoice in obeying Your word. Make us totally dependent on You alone. Share Your thoughts with us and may we share in Your grieve, Your sorrow, Your joy. Grant us the compassion of Jesus. Help us to forsake everyhting for the sake of Christ! We're weak, but Lord give us the power of the Holy Ghost to speak boldly, to pray without ceasing, to study the Bible intensive...Help us to hear and obey Your voice. Draw this world back to You! Awake the sleeping Christians and search and purify our own hearts. Help us to walk in the Spirit and not after the flesh. For You alone deserve the glory! Oh Father, that You alone will receive ALL glory! In Jesus' name. Amen.


_________________
Paul

 2004/10/1 7:03Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

This theme reminds me of a story...

a visiting preaching was approached at the end of the meeting by a furtive looking woman.
"I need to share something with you" she said.
"Certainly" said the visitor
"The trouble with our pastor is..." she began.
"Stop" said the visitor, "I know what the trouble with your pastor is"
"Really?" said the woman.
"Yes" said the visitor "the trouble with your pastor is that he isn't prayed for enough!"

for 'pastor' you might substitute 'church'?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/10/1 8:09Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy