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 Osteen, Warren, and Others...Are you listening?... Paul Washer

I saw this today on Lawman Chronicles. Was it already posted on here?

Where is this sermon or when did Paul preach it?

http://thelawmanchronicles.blogspot.com/2009/05/osteen-warren-and-others-are-you.html

 2009/5/11 2:00
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re: Osteen, Warren, and Others...Are you listening?... Paul Washer

I don't know, but thanks for sharing.

 2009/5/11 3:09Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: paul washer

Brian,

This quote, the way he phrased it, I have never thought of it that way before...

"False teachers are God's judgment on people who don't want God but in the name of religion plan on getting everything their carnal heart desires."

Thank you for posting it.


_________________
Lisa

 2009/5/11 6:02Profile
rnieman
Member



Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 146


 Re:

Very clear and to the point. Thank you for posting.

 2009/5/11 9:58Profile









 Re: God will plow it under if no change.

Sometimes I think we're in such a mess, that the Lord will just plow it under, and start with a new planting.


We need men like Washer, who will articulate the Apostasy as a warning, and God help us, but that some would actually repent. Most listen, and go on with the pews, the handshakes, the salaries, the entertainment, and just make everyone feel like they have complied with God....like listening to a good Irish funeral dirge with the most beautiful of voices filled with pathos...moving everyone to tears.....


The only problem being that it is sang in Gaelic, and no one had a clue... but who cares what was sang, as long as we cried?


Never the less, I loved this post. Washer nails it, and how this word needs to be trumpeted.








 2009/5/11 13:17
MJones
Member



Joined: 2008/10/31
Posts: 320
Missouri

 Re: Osteen, Warren, and Others...Are you listening?... Paul Washer

I know that Brian did not actually ask for an opinion of the clip, but after seeing it I have a few thoughts stirring. I understand before I make them, they will not set well with everyone, nevertheless, I feel compelled to make them.

First, as individuals, in the process of finding God, we discover what He demands of us. If we're not careful, we'll impose those same demands on others as [b]the[/b] means to God.

Is it possible that preachers do the same with other preachers? As a particualar preacher discovers the message God has given him, does he not possibly face the same temptation to impose on other preachers the same message; his becomes the standard that all others are measured by?

John's journey with God resulted in his eating locust and wild honey. Did Jesus have any less of God because He didn't do just like John? When Peter asked Jesus what He had planned for John the disciple, what did Jesus say? 'What is that to you? You must follow me.'

In the clip, Paul uses an example of his mother who was sick. She went to the doctor. The doctor gave her very bad news which rocked their world. His point was that the doctor could have not told them to keep from upsetting them, but it was better, no matter how painful the information was, to hear the truth.

I get that, but I see a difference in the example he uses and the situation he is confronting. For it to be apples to apples, if the doctor would do what he is doing, he would say nothing to Paul's sick mom; he would wait and tell everyone else.

I have no problem with Paul Washer having a problem with Joel Osteen or anyone else, but, if his problem is with Joel, I think he needs to confront Joel personally. What good would it do Paul's mom if the doc tells everyone but her. What is the potential for change on either Paul's or Joel's part if they do not address their differences personally; that is how Paul did it with Peter.

I believe as individuals, we offer variety to God that He enjoys. Similarly, I believe ministers and their churches offer variety to God. So what if God leads one of His servants to teach one aspect of the gospel, another of His servants another aspect and yet another to round out the two. 'What is that to you. You must follow me.'

I do not agree with the spirit in which Paul Washer makes his point. True the church is in need of a serious overhall, but wouldn't it be betther if preachers could learn from the good in each other and present themselves united instead of attacking, tearing down and dividing?


_________________
Mike Jones

 2009/5/13 23:35Profile
yoadam
Member



Joined: 2009/2/10
Posts: 97
OREGON

 Re: Osteen, Warren, and Others...Are you listening?... Paul Washer

Mjones,

1. Osteen is preaching the old works salvation / self help false gospel as far as many of us are concerned. It is "cotton candy"... and leads not to God worship, but man worship. Please see 60 minutes interview with Osteen (and Michael Horton in defense of the gospel) at this link:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4PzFikyGh0&feature=PlayList&p=5D0C69B2DAE88094&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3]Part 1[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEsimWJjg9g&feature=PlayList&p=5D0C69B2DAE88094&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2]Part 2[/url]

2. Paul in the new testament mentions in his letters several heretics who cause trouble by name, so it is not necessarily wrong to drop names. If a wolf is a wolf, let's call it a wolf...

3. Washer is not new with this interpretation of false teachers being a judgement from God on the hearers. In fact, I have read a similiar statement from George Whitefield recently in his extremely powerful message, "The method of grace."

Quote:
Jeremiah 6:14, "They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.

As God can send a nation or people no greater blessing than to give them faithful, sincere, and upright ministers, so the greatest curse that God can possibly send upon a people in this world, is to give them over to blind, unregenerate, carnal, lukewarm, and unskilled guides. And yet, in all ages, we find that there have been many wolves in sheep"s clothing, many that daubed with untempered mortar, that prophesied smoother things than God did allow. As it was formerly, so it is now; there are many that corrupt the Word of God and deal deceitfully with it. It was so in a special manner in the prophet Jeremiah"s time; and he, faithful to his Lord, faithful to that God who employed him, did not fail from time to time to open his mouth against them, and to bear a noble testimony to the honor of that God in whose name he from time to time spake. If you will read this prophecy, you will find that none spake more against such ministers than Jeremiah, and here especially in the chapter out of which the text is taken, he speaks very severely against them -- he charges them with several crimes; particularly, he charges them with covetousness: "For," says he in the 13th verse, "from the least of them even to the greatest of them, every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth false." And then, in the words of the text, in a more special manner, he exemplifies how they had dealt falsely, how they had behaved treacherously to poor souls: says he, "They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace." The prophet, in the name of God, had been denouncing war against the people, he had been telling them that their house should be left desolate, and that the Lord would certainly visit the land with war. "Therefore," says he, in the 11th verse, "I am full of the fury of the Lord; I am weary with holding in; I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly of young men together; for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days. And their houses shall be turned unto others, with their fields and wives together; for I will stretch out my hand upon the inhabitants of the land, saith the Lord." The prophet gives a thundering message, that they might be terrified and have some convictions and inclinations to repent; but it seems that the false prophets, the false priests, went about stifling people"s convictions, and when they were hurt or a little terrified, they were for daubing over the wound, telling them that Jeremiah was but an enthusiastic preacher, that there could be no such thing as war among them, and saying to people, Peace, peace, be still, when the prophet told them there was no peace. The words, then, refer primarily unto outward things, but I verily believe have also a further reference to the soul, and are to be referred to those false teachers, who, when people were under conviction of sin, when people were beginning to look towards heaven, were for stifling their convictions and telling them they were good enough before. And, indeed, people generally love to have it so; our hearts are exceedingly deceitful, and desperately wicked; none but the eternal God knows how treacherous they are. How many of us cry, Peace, peace, to our souls, when there is no peace! How many are there who are now settled upon their lees, that now think they are Christians, that now flatter themselves that they have an interest in Jesus Christ; whereas if we come to examine their experiences, we shall find that their peace is but a peace of the devil"s making -- it is not a peace of God"s giving -- it is not a peace that passeth human understanding. It is matter, therefore, of great importance, my dear hearers, to know whether we may speak peace to our hearts. We are all desirous of peace; peace is an unspeakable blessing; how can we live without peace? And, therefore, people from time to time must be taught how far they must go, and what must be wrought in them, before they can speak peace to their hearts. This is what I design at present, that I may deliver my soul, that I may be free from the blood of those to whom I preach -- that I may not fail to declare the whole counsel of God. I shall, from the words of the text, endeavor to show you what you must undergo, and what must be wrought in you before you can speak peace to your hearts.



Rest of the sermon by George Whitefield I highly recommend,
http://www.reformed.org/documents/Whitefield/WITF_058.html


_________________
Adam

 2009/5/14 1:03Profile









 Brother Jones

Quote:
I do not agree with the spirit in which Paul Washer makes his point. True the church is in need of a serious overhall, but wouldn't it be betther if preachers could learn from the good in each other and present themselves united instead of attacking, tearing down and dividing?



yes.

Now you're going to get a lot of heat, just turn the other cheek, don't fall into a trap of defending yourself, let's just go read John 17 on our knees.

neil

 2009/5/14 1:09
yoadam
Member



Joined: 2009/2/10
Posts: 97
OREGON

 Re: Brother Jones

heat, maybe-- hate, let it never be! Guys let's not slap each others' cheeks.


_________________
Adam

 2009/5/14 1:24Profile









 Re:

You know what they say about opinions.

Here's my take...

Quote:

MJones wrote:
I know that Brian did not actually ask for an opinion of the clip, but after seeing it I have a few thoughts stirring. I understand before I make them, they will not set well with everyone, nevertheless, I feel compelled to make them.

First, as individuals, in the process of finding God, we discover what He demands of us. If we're not careful, we'll impose those same demands on others as [b]the[/b] means to God.

Is it possible that preachers do the same with other preachers? As a particualar preacher discovers the message God has given him, does he not possibly face the same temptation to impose on other preachers the same message; his becomes the standard that all others are measured by?

John's journey with God resulted in his eating locust and wild honey. Did Jesus have any less of God because He didn't do just like John? When Peter asked Jesus what He had planned for John the disciple, what did Jesus say? 'What is that to you? You must follow me.'

In the clip, Paul uses an example of his mother who was sick. She went to the doctor. The doctor gave her very bad news which rocked their world. His point was that the doctor could have not told them to keep from upsetting them, but it was better, no matter how painful the information was, to hear the truth.

I get that, but I see a difference in the example he uses and the situation he is confronting. For it to be apples to apples, if the doctor would do what he is doing, he would say nothing to Paul's sick mom; he would wait and tell everyone else.

I have no problem with Paul Washer having a problem with Joel Osteen or anyone else, but, if his problem is with Joel, I think he needs to confront Joel personally. What good would it do Paul's mom if the doc tells everyone but her. What is the potential for change on either Paul's or Joel's part if they do not address their differences personally; that is how Paul did it with Peter.

I believe as individuals, we offer variety to God that He enjoys. Similarly, I believe ministers and their churches offer variety to God. So what if God leads one of His servants to teach one aspect of the gospel, another of His servants another aspect and yet another to round out the two. 'What is that to you. You must follow me.'

I do not agree with the spirit in which Paul Washer makes his point. True the church is in need of a serious overhall, but wouldn't it be betther if preachers could learn from the good in each other and present themselves united instead of attacking, tearing down and dividing?




I came to Christ about 5 years ago in a baptist church in Canada, although, before that time I was watching Creflo Dollar on T.V. because I was "searching". Then once I began attending church I found myself reluctantly starting to watch Joel (at first I wanted to punch him in the face...God has worked on me since) and reading Warren's PDL book because it was given to all newcomers to the church.

Shortly after I went to Korea where health and wealth is a plague.

Two years ago, my wife and I actually went to 'see' Joel (see God) in Toronto. He is candy and candy rots the teeth.

Here is the kicker: when my wife and I were engaged a few years ago, we made a 'prayer list'.

My prayer list was for cars, planes, fame, and other ungodly requests signed to God.

I am embarrassed by what I was actually asking of God to give to ME (oh me, oh my).

There is no doubt that besides my greed and selfishness (sin), people like Osteen/Creflo/Warren and the many others, feed the undiscerning with the most deadly poison a human can't endure; partial truth.

Expose them all for what they are and what they are doing.

Matthew 28:19,20 Are we able to say that these men are actually teaching what Jesus taught?

I guess this is just my opinion :-( .

 2009/5/14 6:26





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