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Totality
Member



Joined: 2008/11/23
Posts: 68
Sulphur Springs, Texas

 Infant Baptism

So I know there is much debate over the topic of infant baptism, but if we are Protestants and our cry is "Sola Scriptura" then how can we defend something never found or exampled in the Bible?


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Maximino Cosme II

 2009/5/9 11:17Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re: Infant Baptism

Totality,

Paedo-baptists see their beliefs as being found in the Bible. They believe that the principle of children of believers being included in the visible church has been the case for all of redemptive history. They see no express command for the reversal of this principle, therefore, still consider children members of the visible church. They see the sign of induction into the church as baptism, therefore, they baptise their children.

They see promises such as those found in Acts 2:39 as containing direct reference to children and baptism.

With care in Christ,
Taylor


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2009/5/9 12:00Profile









 Re:

I can only speak from what I've seen in the PCA only.

When first joining two years ago because of the Pastor himself and the integrity of the other Asst pastors, elders, deacons and all the men in leadership only, I too had problems with this practice and would never perform this myself but I've come to know them personally now and see these children grow up in this particular church.

They hold this as most of us would hold a Baby Dedication service on Sundays before the main service. No one there believes that it is a guarantee that the child will grow to make a definite decision for Christ, but their focus on the children's Christian education is strong and taking great responsibility as a church for the overseeing of these children.

I've watched the older children make an open confession of Christ and they must go through what's called the communicants course. They are taught and tested to see if they understand what salvation is and Christian principles and behavior.
After weeks of this new converts type class, then they come before the church and it's a beautiful thing to see these children being accepted into the Family of GOD.

At one time, years ago, I would have debated this issue. I can't defend it Scripturally, but I can say now, that I'd never come at odds with these that I know because of the obvious fruit of their salvation.

 2009/5/9 12:44
Totality
Member



Joined: 2008/11/23
Posts: 68
Sulphur Springs, Texas

 Re:

So then, on the basis of a Dedicational service, there is nothing wrong with this. My church, Baptist, holds an annual Baby Dedication Sunday Service for parents to dedicate their infants to the Lord without baptism.


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Maximino Cosme II

 2009/5/9 13:54Profile
rreighe
Member



Joined: 2008/12/23
Posts: 124


 Re:

For a while now i have always seen it as just a way that the parents are publicly expressing the want that they have for their kid's to grow up with Christ, and that they would teach the kids about God and show them what God says about salvation. however, i do not know of anyway that that is a way that anyone can consider a route of salvation, strictly because the baby has a mind of a baby and doesn't understand yet their need to repent and ask for forgiveness.

in the lack of it i would also say that it would also be ok to get baptised once again at your own will with no one pressuring you to do it or something alog those lines, as a way that you are expressing that you will follow God. i have no scripture to conferm what i am saying, i am sure there IS some scripture that could either help me with what i am saying or show me what i am saying that is wrong, given that i am a human.


i am not claiming to know HIS mind)


in the lack of it all i do not belive it would offend God if you were to baptise your baby to show that you are going to lead it to Christ, showing them how to take that one step that only they can take, and then to get baptised once again as an adult.
if it does offend God for that then please do tell me.

a baby dedication sunday? hmm... i think i like how that sounds... can you explain?


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allan

 2009/5/9 15:31Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re:

A baby dedication ceremony is for the parents.
They recognize their child is a gift from the
LORD, and so they are responsible to HIM to
care for, to nurture, to raise up the child
in the teachings of the Word to follow the LORD.


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Martin G. Smith

 2009/5/9 15:50Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone.


The promise made in Acts 2:39 is of receiving the baptisim of the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with permiting infants to be baptised.


The practice of baptising infants is a heretical schisim and deviation from the ancient tradition of the Church and of the clear and persistent example of the New Testament scripture.


The practice is heretical and dishonors the signification of water baptisim as repentance and burial with Christ.



[i]edited to correct errors in spelling[/i]


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/5/9 15:56Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

Chris said,

"The practice of baptizing infants is a heretical schism and deviation from the ancient tradition of the Church and of the clear and persistent example of the New Testament scripture."

Chris, speaking as someone who is yet a credo-baptist like yourself, your phrase is probably overly harsh. We must recognize that after over one-thousand years of virtually universal acceptance of infant baptism in the Church, it was the baptists who created schisms, albeit we might say for the better. We cannot deny that until the last three-hundred years, infant baptism has ruled the Church, both in and outside of Rome. We must also acknowledge that all of those who practice it, do not share the same beliefs about what it signifies or accomplishes.

Before going further, I must point out that you said paedo-baptism is a "deviation from the ancient practice of the Church." I ask you, "how ancient?" It is easy to use rhetoric, but harder to prove historically such a statement. I believe there are numerous extant writings from the second to fourth centuries - mind you, that's only one to four generations removed from the Apostles - which testify with full acceptance of infant baptism.

For instance,

Irenaeus: "For he came to save all by means of himself -- all, I say, who by him are born again to God -- infants, children, adolescents, young men, and old men." (Against Heresies II.22.4)

Hippolytus: "And they shall baptize the little children first. And if they can answer for themselves, let them answer. But if they cannot, let their parents answer or someone from their family. And next they shall baptize the grown men; and last the women." (Apostolic Tradition 21.3-5)

Why would people think such a thing? Before brandishing the word 'heretic', the very implication of the term being someone intentionally injurious and malicious; consider how one might come to this position from scripture.

In Rom. 5, circumcision is called "a sign of the faith which Abraham had," and yet this sign, which represented the "cutting away of the flesh," that is, regeneration, was given to his sons, as well as millions of infants who descended from him. Again, circumcision was a sign of the faith of the father of the covenant, and stood as a promise to the one who took it, that through like-faith there was promise of justification. For this reason, paedo-baptists may reasonably argue, water baptism is a sign of faith and should be administered to adults who profess faith, as well as to children of professed believers. To the adult baptism is a confirmation of Christ's promise - "do this for [that you have received] remission of sins" - whereas to the child it is an especial promise that through the like-faith which their parents professed, they too can be saved.

This is quite different from Baptist baby dedications, which have no scriptural support and are actually, if anything, parent dedications.

To a Reformed person, infant baptism is not a parents public commitment to raise a child a certain way, although that is an aspect of parental responsibilities. Rather, infant baptism is ordained of God as a gracious pledge to evangelize the child, for the sake of the parent. The baptism is itself evangelistic, in so much as it prophetically and pictorially describes what must occur if they are to be saved. The child is encouraged to look back on their baptism and to believe that God has made a loud call to them, "believe and be washed!", "die with Christ and be buried with Him!" which has not been made to all the heathen of the world. Why is God free to do this for them and not others? For the very same reason that God gave signs, seals, and ceremonies to the Old Covenant Jews and left the gentiles to perish "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world." [Eph 2:12] Because He acts on a principle of grace towards sinners, which may be suspended at any time unless He sovereignly covenants to preserve it.

Again, I am yet a credo-baptist, but I realize it is not fair to ignorantly malign millions of our historic brethren as if they had evil motives or no scriptural basis for their well-intentioned actions.

 2009/5/9 18:30Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

theopenlife wrote:

Quote:



but I realize it is not fair to ignorantly malign millions of our historic brethren as if they had evil motives or no scriptural basis for their well-intentioned actions.




My brother,

Throughout human history, men, governments, societies, etc.. have decided to do sometime with "their well-intentioned actions" that have been far off base and vary harmful. The church is not immune from this.


If I may be so bold to comment... just because everyone is doing it, doesn't mean it should be done.

The question is, "Is infant baptism honoring the Lord, or is it dishonoring the Lord?"


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Christiaan

 2009/5/9 18:48Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
The question is, "Is infant baptism honoring the Lord, or is it dishonoring the Lord?"



I think we all agree that this is something that needs to be determined. However, I believe upon studying the subject, that you will find it is not quite as clear as many make it. It is not simply "left over Catholicism" as many make it out to be (not saying you do). It is a much more complex issue than that and it spans the entirety of the Bible in its consideration.

With care in Christ,
Taylor


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Taylor Otwell

 2009/5/9 22:59Profile





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