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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Praying! Who do we pray to

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deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1682
Hemel Hempstead

 Praying! Who do we pray to

Luke 11:1-4
1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. 2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. 3 Give us day by day F26 our daily bread. 4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

When I pray I pray from the heart until someone pulled me up on

Ac 7:59 - Show Context
And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

This issue I have been struggling with the last few days! My friend said when Jesus taught us to pray he taught us to pray not to Jesus!

The problem is that I struggle with the word Father! Praying to Jesus I have no problem with.

The problem that I also have with is praying to God as which one there are many Hindu God and then there is Allah, How can that differentiate from our God!

Mt 6:6 - Show Context
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Mt 6:9 - Show Context
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Mt 26:53 - Show Context
Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Lu 11:2 - Show Context
And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Lu 16:27 - Show Context
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

Joh 14:16 - Show Context
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Joh 16:26 - Show Context
At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

Ro 8:15 - Show Context
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Ga 4:6 - Show Context
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Most of my prayers are screams Jesus help me! Or a failing shattered heart! in situations I do not know for a companion or for situations I have no understanding but that God will answer my prayer!

Ga 3:19 - Show Context
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Ga 3:20 - Show Context
Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

1Ti 2:5 - Show Context
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Heb 8:6 - Show Context
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 9:15 - Show Context
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 12:24 - Show Context
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

My friend said because Jesus told us to pray to the Father we should my theology just suddenly collapsed!

Lu 18:7 - Show Context
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Romans 8:26-28
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit,

It is hard to sometimes pray as it is ! Father is not in my vocab, When I pray I can easily pray to Jesus but the Father is another matter why do I struggle to pray to the Father.

It is what the word conjures up that may make me distance! More people get gifts on Mothers Day than Fathers Day!
As never being a Dad I have no reference other than my Dad!

Jesus calls his Father his Heavenly Father, I am my Father are one,some people find it hard to reconcile a God of Judgement in the New Testament and a God of Love in the Old Testament! I do not struggle with, Because without Judgement there cannot be no mercy! and no love. The God of this Universe is not going to let sinners get away with it. Else we are all doomed!

Mt 5:48 - Show Context
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Mt 12:50 - Show Context
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Jesus only did what his Heavenly Father did! I have a person I want to marry if I have her children that would make me the childrens father!Hopefully by Faith that will happen!I need to trust him more!

I struggle because Jesus is our Bride, how do we love him and pray to him and pray to our father!

A holy company , the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit!

I think one person in our church said that God cannot show love if they cannot show love to one another, this hit me!

A single man on a desert island struggles by nature to love everything but himself!

Eph 5:25 - Show Context
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,

To me if Jesus gave himself for his church, we ought to give our lives for other believers! Leaving the blessed richness of Heaven to dwell with man in our sin, and humbling himself on the cross! How much more should we do for our brothers but we fail!

What I am saying there is no love with out loving the one who is love!

What I a trying to gather is a loving relationship between a Father and a Son in unheard of!

Conclusion
Why did Jesus ask us to pray to the father and not to him?
Why is the word Father not used in the English Vocab? Why do I not pray to the Father?
IS it wrong to pray to Jesus?

My final question is it wrong to pray to jesus or the Father? as there is biblical evidence for the both! Help
Dom


_________________
Dominic Shiells

 2009/4/25 19:30Profile
hescoming
Member



Joined: 2009/4/24
Posts: 6


 Re: Praying! Who do we pray to

Deltadom,

I believe that we should pray to the Father. Jesus is our high priest interceding for us until we become a child of God. Once a child of God we are priests, and have access to the throne. Jesus role was to restore our fellowship to the Father. Jesus was the vessel. God was in Christ. So the answer to your question is YES. I do think it is wrong to pray to Jesus. Many do it in ignorance, such as children, and young christians, I don't belive is wrong, not hurting anything for these, God knows the heart.

 2009/4/25 20:44Profile









 Re:

I noticed how Art Katz prayed. He had trouble with the Name of Jesus through most of his life and I noticed he almost always prayed "My GOD" and he'd say that several times through-out the prayer.

That covers the Godhead. Like Thomas said - John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto Him, My Lord and my God.

Jesus is GOD - without being Oneness/Jesus-Only - no trinitarian should take "everlasting father" out of this verse ... Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

In Jesus Name means we pray by His "authority" that He purchased for us.

GOD is still ONE GOD.

That's what I saw in Art Katz's prayers. No need to always call the ONE TRUE GOD "Father" only. HE has countless Names through-out The WORD.

I understand your sensitivity on this. I too had this handicap until I looked at a cross and thought "Creator GOD died on there" and read Rev 21:1-7 where Jesus calls us His "son" - tied that in with Is 9:6 making it Still, from eternity past Only ONE GOD, Who helps us pray by His Spirit - called both the Spirit of GOD and the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

ONE GOD. It's just by Who's Authority & by what authority we speak to Him - through the "right granted us" by The Risen LORD --- "GOD our Savior".

Makes me smile. Thanks Dom.

 2009/4/25 21:00
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3142


 Re: Praying! Who do we pray to

Quote:
. . . is it wrong to pray to Jesus or the Father?


I accepted God when I was a teenager - and that is always Who I prayed to - I did not know Jesus so He was never included in my prayers. When I noticed that others prayed to "Jesus," I tried to change, but it really felt wrong so I quit trying.

After the Lord got a hold of me and I realized that He loved me, and was with me every single moment - right by my side in everything that I did, I was so delighted that I called Him "Pa Pa" - for this is what He had become - Someone that loved me and was watching out for me. It was not long before He very firmly, but lovingly, changed the "Pa Pa" to "Father." It was later that I came to know Jesus - and once He was in my heart, He was also in my prayers.

I think it is a matter of relationship. From what I understand, Art Katz did not grow up with a father, so that is likely why he did not often use the word "Father" in his prayers. I have heard of others that had an abusive father, or were orphans, that also had trouble using the term "Father," that is, until the Lord mended that area of their life.

Our Father knows your heart. If you ask Him, He will clarify what He would have you to do, both in your mind, and in your heart.

 2009/4/25 22:24Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2707
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
So the answer to your question is YES. I do think it is wrong to pray to Jesus. Many do it in ignorance, such as children, and young christians, I don't belive is wrong, not hurting anything for these, God knows the heart.



Dear Sir or Ma'am, I cannot fathom how a washed and redeemed soul in intimate union with the Lord Jesus Christ would not pray to Him.

In The Old Testament the saints would "call upon the name of the Lord." In the letter to the Corinthians Paul writes, "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place [i]call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord[/i], both theirs and ours:"
(1Corinthians 1:2)

Obviously Paul would know the importance of that phrase and he applied it to Jesus.

Also, "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."
(John 5:23)

This verse shows the equality of the Godhead and as such if we honor the Father with prayer we should honor the Son also.

One other thing, I have heard or read the prayers of men like Andrew Murray, David Wilkerson, and A.W. Tozer, among many others; they have all prayed to Jesus. Are they immature Christians?

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2009/4/25 22:41Profile
growingholly
Member



Joined: 2008/8/4
Posts: 201


 Re:

you know another way to look at "in Jesus' Name"? as His bride.

when you get married, the woman traditionally takes the man's last name. this means she is now part of his family. this means that she now has an obligation to look to his best interests and serve him, and not pursue what she, in her selfish flesh, wants. she is there to serve him, as one flesh with and for him. check out proverbs 31 to see some ways how a wife should take her duty to serve her husband fully. then we can apply those truths to our brideship towards Christ.

one good thing that a wife will do is to know her man's needs, and act in that. as a small example, a woman that desires to love and serve her husband may make him his favorite meal (without being asked) after he gives a stressful presentation at work. she may arrange for "mommy and daddy time" that night to minister to him that way. she may just take the children out for a treat so he can be alone to rest up from the day, etc. as she gets to learn her man, she becomes one with him and eventually automatically begins, out of love, to know his desires, and she desires to fulfill those. as she becoems more and more his wife, over time, she really becomes one with him and it is second nature. (at least, this is what i believe, i'm not yet married, but i hope that is how it will go!)

so it is with us and Christ our Husband. when we become Jesus' bride...how much more do we become one with Him? i believe that when He said that about asking in His name, He may have meant it that way. as if to say, "if you're really, truly connected with Me, then your heart will be changed by God and you will begin asking for the things you know i would want you to ask. it will become natural to you to desire what I desire."

also, the hebrew culture was really big on names, and an indivudual's name has huge significance. so when we "take His name", i.e. become married to Jesus Christ, we are taking on us an enormous significance!! His banner over His people is love! His name is serious business, and His bride must step up and serve our Husband, anticipating His desires and fulfilling them, and as we are ever more conformed to His image, it will become more and more natural to do so. bless God!!!

 2009/4/25 22:44Profile
jlosinski
Member



Joined: 2006/9/11
Posts: 294
North Pole, Alaska

 Re:

Hi "hescoming",
Welcome to the forum, I pray that you are growing in spirit and truth.

In reference to your statement that Jesus is high priest for children of the devil (I know you didn't put it that way, but that's what it infers (1 John 3:10); can you substantiate the claim that Jesus intercedes on behalf of unregenerate people? In what way does He intercede? Thanks,
Joe

 2009/4/25 22:55Profile
hescoming
Member



Joined: 2009/4/24
Posts: 6


 Re: Hi guys

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the welcome. I would love to clarify. If youll turn to your bible to Heb. 7:25 it makes it pretty clear. (Wherefore he is able to SAVE THEM to the uttermost that come unto GOD BY HIM, seeing he ever liveth to make INTERCESSION FOR THEM.) Hes praying for the lost (THEM). Hes interceding for those he bought with a price. This is the priesthood of Christ.

 2009/4/25 23:24Profile
hescoming
Member



Joined: 2009/4/24
Posts: 6


 Re:

Quote:

InTheLight wrote:
Quote:
So the answer to your question is YES. I do think it is wrong to pray to Jesus. Many do it in ignorance, such as children, and young christians, I don't belive is wrong, not hurting anything for these, God knows the heart.



Dear Sir or Ma'am, I cannot fathom how a washed and redeemed soul in intimate union with the Lord Jesus Christ would not pray to Him.

In The Old Testament the saints would "call upon the name of the Lord." In the letter to the Corinthians Paul writes, "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place [i]call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord[/i], both theirs and ours:"
(1Corinthians 1:2)

Obviously Paul would know the importance of that phrase and he applied it to Jesus.

Also, "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."
(John 5:23)

This verse shows the equality of the Godhead and as such if we honor the Father with prayer we should honor the Son also.

One other thing, I have heard or read the prayers of men like Andrew Murray, David Wilkerson, and A.W. Tozer, among many others; they have all prayed to Jesus. Are they immature Christians?

In Christ,

Ron

Sorry if I offended you. I wasnt meaning it that way. I'm just saying that anytime Jesus speaks of prayer he always references the Father. He is indeed our Lord. Sorry if that was upsetting. Maybe immature is the wrong word. Were all victims of our own influences at times. Some of us do it because it's what we were taught.

 2009/4/25 23:30Profile
jlosinski
Member



Joined: 2006/9/11
Posts: 294
North Pole, Alaska

 Re:

[i](Wherefore he is able to SAVE THEM to the uttermost that come unto GOD BY HIM, seeing he ever liveth to make INTERCESSION FOR THEM.) Hes praying for the lost (THEM). Hes interceding for those he bought with a price. This is the priesthood of Christ. [/i]

Is the above in the context of Limited Atonement/Unconditional Election?

Looking at the context of the preceding verses in Hebrews, it states that Jesus has an unchanging priesthood (vs. 24), which is perpetual "...ever liveth to make intercession for them". This is contrasted against earthly priests in vs. 23. In that sense, as He is the unchanging priest, He is also the perpetual sacrifice, offered once for sin. This sacrificial atonement is only made effectual by faith (Romans 3:25) which the unregenerate do not possess. Christ is also referred to as the mediator of a better covenant in Hebrews 8:6. This better covenant is obviously referring to salvation and goes on to quote that amazing prophesy from Jeremiah 31. An unregenerate person cannot partake of the new covenant mediated by Christ unless he is born again, therefore Jesus does not intercede on behalf of rebellious sinners. Look at John 3:18, 19; How can an unbeliever be under condemnation, if, according to your statement, they have Christ as their intercessor? Perhaps Romans 8:1-4 is wrong and no one is under condemnation, but that would assume that John 3:18,19 is wrong.

I may be completely misunderstanding what you are trying to convey, if I am I apologize, I'm making my case, and am simply curious how you understand Christ's role as intercessor.
Joe

 2009/4/26 0:43Profile





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