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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Has anyone done much studying on the tetragrammaton? (a couple unanswered questions still)

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RobertW
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 Re:

Quote:
I know the Jews didn't use His name but did they ever so we know at least how they pronounced it?



Some believe that one of the things the messiah would do when He came was to teach them the proper way to pronounce YHWH. There are no vowels so any pronunciation is speculation at best.

But as regards the use of Hashem, it is important to realize that God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles when we fall into sin and give the enemies an occasion to 'blaspheme the name of God.'


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/4/27 13:29Profile









 Re: Has anyone done much studying on the tetragrammaton?

In the old world, Genesis speaks of a day when "men began to call upon the Name of the Lord". In the days of the garden, Adam evidently called him something.


I think it must have been something like "Father!", as Jesus taught, that when we pray, "Our Father" was enough, and when we are Baptized, in the Name of Father...Son, and Holy Spirit. "Lord", is a word that associates our Faith with the Creator, and Jesus said; "When you behold Me, you behold the Father!"


When we say that Jesus is Lord, we believe that the Father is in Jesus, just as He said...they are One and the same...though in deed separate in Personality.


It is written that at "the Name of Jesus every knee shall bow!" He is the Same who walked with Adam in the cool of the evening, and the same who stated, "Before Abraham, "I AM!"



As we read David, with his enormous treasure of worship and intimacy, we see him say "God", or Lord, [in English ]often. I don't think he was hung up on words being too holy. I'm sure Jahweh was fine, or the other revelatory titles of the Father...and it seemed that he got results. God loved him back.



















 2009/4/27 15:14
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 Re:

RW,

Quote:
There are no vowels so any pronunciation is speculation at best.


From what I understand there are only a couple variations of ways we can use the vowels I think. But then again I wonder I believe I heard that Hebrew does not even have vowels so I do not know what to make of all this?


Quote:
Some believe that one of the things the messiah would do when He came was to teach them the proper way to pronounce YHWH


That is an interesting thought. I will have to look into that. I think the word Kurios is used. From what I am told in the OT the word LORD is YHWH but I wonder why it is so in the NT. I mean did Jesus only use the word Lord or did the writers continue to follow the tradition of not using the Name or was it only the work of the translators or what? I think the word God and Lord are by definition similar.


Quote:
But as regards the use of Hashem, it is important to realize that God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles when we fall into sin and give the enemies an occasion to 'blaspheme the name of God.'


So they can blaspheme His name even if they do not know it. Just by claiming the God of Abraham His name is blasphemed.

 2009/4/27 16:46Profile
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 Re:

BT,

Quote:
as Jesus taught, that when we pray, "Our Father" was enough,


This is a good point. I also thought that Father is one of the great names and also sufficient in that it is what He mainly is to us. Many of us have fathers and we never or rarely call them by name.


Quote:
When we say that Jesus is Lord


Good point as well.


Quote:
I don't think he was hung up on words being too holy.


This is a GOOD point if the original patriarchs and so forth would use the name then there is no sense in us not pernouncing it or writing it.

 2009/4/27 16:52Profile
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 Re:

Okay so I am pretty sure that God did not want us to forget His name by trying to be reverent in a way in which we lose it by not writing it or saying it since He said in Exodus 3:15 that we are to [b]remember[/b] it forever.

I also think that the name "I am that I am" is given since names are descriptive and to describe God completely is impossible by man.

I still am trying to figure out a couple things though.

1.
I have heard the name interpreted "I am that I am" and "to be" or "the becoming one". Also when I look at the Strong's concordance it seems to be 3 words I am, that, I am. So which one is correct so that I can know the meaning? Is it I am that I am, to be, the becoming one, 3 words or one name?

2.
If there are 3 different words how do we know that these are the right words if there are letters missing?

3.
I was also told that the scribes took out every other letter. We try to replace them with vowels. But the Hebrew language has no vowels. So how does that make sense? Why would we put vowels in a place where there were none? (sorry if this is a stupid question)

4.
If we know the meaning of the name how can we if we don't have all the letters? If we have somehow deciphered what the words were then why don't we know how to pronounce those words?

 2009/5/3 3:24Profile









 Re:

What I love about Ex 3:15 is that HE is called 'ĕlôhîym [b]5[/b] times and that's the Plural of GOD, or Deity. The one "LORD" [H3068] in that verse is what most call Jehovah [Yehovah].

"The God/Elohiym of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" is again repeated in vs 16.

Elohiym is one of my favorite Names of GOD as HE started Genesis with it. "In the beginning Elohiym created ..."

Here is LORD = Yehovah from Strong's - H3068
יהוה
yehôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'
From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.


So if you look in your Strong's at H1961, H3050 and H3069 you'll have the answer for Yehovah.


What I can't wait for is to find out HIS Name at the time of Rev 19:12. Amen! :-)

 2009/5/3 7:05









 Re:

I'm seeing that you are refering to Vs 14 though with the "I AM".

Exo 3:14 And God H430 said unto Moses, I AM H1961 THAT H834 I AM: H1961 and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM H1961 hath sent me unto you.


Strong's
H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

 2009/5/3 7:11









 Re:

As sacred as the names of Yahweh and Jehovah are, the name of Jesus is the only name that has the power to move mountains and set the captive free.

 2009/5/3 7:29
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 Re:

Oh okay, so there were 3 different names. Elohiym, YHVH or YHWH, and Hawyah.

I thought that I AM THAT I AM was YHWH.

So I believe he was saying that the I AM THAT I AM/Hawyah was his name.

Whereas Lord/YHWH and God/Elohiym were more like titles.

So I wonder a couple things about these definitions.

Like where did they get them from?

I am not sure they had a dictionary to refer to. So we would then therefore get the meaning from the context and usage.

It seems that the three are defined somewhat similarly.

Maybe he said YHWH God to distinguish from other false God's?

Or maybe it does just mean master or lord?

Also, is it YHWH or VH?

Lastly, the question remains how did they define YHWH if they did not have the whole spelling? Did they just define it by context and usage? maybe they don't really know what it means completely? or is there a word in an ancient Hebrew dictionary that can be matched like a crossword puzzle or something that is similar in spelling and would fit?

And, can someone explain to me this whole vowel thing? Why doesn't the Hebrew language have vowels? If it doesn't have vowels then how can we fill in the missing letters with vowels?

 2009/5/3 11:56Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
What I can't wait for is to find out HIS Name at the time of Rev 19:12. Amen!


Yes this is an interesting and awing thing. I also read that we will receive a new name. I have not quite understood why we will be the only one to know it. Maybe His new name is like the new song that is given because of a new work or the new covenant. Or maybe sort of like Abram to Abraham once He finally sits completed as King.


Quote:
As sacred as the names of Yahweh and Jehovah are, the name of Jesus is the only name that has the power to move mountains and set the captive free.


Jesus is God therefore it is another name of God. Names are descriptive unlike many names today in western culture. The name Jesus was descriptive of the most gracious aspect of God namely when He took on flesh in the Gospel. Nonetheless there was much grace in the original creating of all things and since YHWH and Jesus are one and the same I would say that the names are equal though in some sense distinct. I think it still an important thing to study especially as I remarked earlier that it was to be "remembered" throughout all generations.

 2009/5/3 12:10Profile





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