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ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Speaking presumptuously

"But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [i]is[/i] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [i]but[/i] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."


- Deuteronomy 18:20-22(KJV)




[b]presume[/b](from Stong's Hebrew Dictionary)


H2102
זיד זוּד
zûd zîyd
zood, zeed
A primitive root; to seethe; figuratively to be insolent: - be proud, deal proudly, presume, (come) presumptuously, sod.




[b]presumptuously[/b](from Strong's Hebrew Dictionary)


H2087
זדון
zâdôn
zaw-done'
From H2102; arrogance: - presumptuously, pride, proud (man).





I wonder if we can become guilty of this by speaking into people's lives that we have no authority to speak to.


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/4/16 19:48Profile
TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re: Speaking presumptuously

Chris,

I agree, I think we do need to be careful of "speaking into" people's lives in a way that does not promote Biblical wisdom and maturity. As Proverbs says, a wise man studieth to answer, and a fool is general characterized as quick to share his own opinions. I'm not what you mean by having "authority" to speak into someone's life. But, perhaps Paul's writing in his letter to the Ephesians is applicable here: Ephesians 4:29 ... In my opinion, which may be different than yours, I don't think we have to wait on any special revelation to speak to someone on spiritual matters, however, I do believe we need to exercise mature discernment and wisdom in deciding when is an appropriate time to speak to someone and when is it better to refrain.

Thanks for sparking this good topic!

With care in Christ,
Taylor


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Taylor Otwell

 2009/4/16 22:39Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
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 Re:

Why would we need a prophet if we have the Holy Spirit in us forever. Is not direct revelation, even to the knowledge of "Christ in you the Hope of Glory", enough to see we don't have prophets as in the old testament. Paul certainly did not need a Prophet. Ro 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Ga 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

No Prophet for John either, just the Revelation of Jesus Christ by His Angle?
Re 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/4/17 1:49Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Speaking presumptuously

"Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof: Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed. For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth [i]it[/i]. When Jesus heard these things, he marveled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel."


- Luke 7:6-9(KJV)




[i]I also am a man set under authority...[/i]


Amazing observation from this man I think.


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/4/17 4:41Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again everyone.


Hi Phillip, after reading this this morning I was thinking of some of the ways in which prophecy comes to mind in the New Testament scriptures:




For fullness and perfection(Eph 4:11-16)

None of us have complete and full revelation of all things unto our own selves(1 Co 13:9,12)



For correction and testing of the revelations and words of others(1 Co 14:31-40)



For guidance, warning, and direction(Acts 8:29, 11:28, 13:2, 21:4,11, 1 Ti 4:1-3, 2 Peter 1:14)



For impartation(1 Ti 1:18,4:14, 2 Ti 1:6. See also perhaps Rom 1:11, Acts 6:6, 8:14-17, 9:17, 13:3-4, 19:6)




God speaking(Rev 1-3, 1 Co 14:24-25, 1 Peter 4:11).





If I could suggest, about John the Apostle, he was the prophet( Rev 1:3, 22:9).


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/4/17 22:25Profile
ChrisJD
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Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Taylor, I appreciate what you shared!


Quote:
In my opinion, which may be different than yours, I don't think we have to wait on any special revelation to speak to someone on spiritual matters, however, I do believe we need to exercise mature discernment and wisdom in deciding when is an appropriate time to speak to someone and when is it better to refrain.




I agree somewhat also. But, I do think that there are times when we have no place to speak to someone if we do not know the mind of God in what we are speaking of, [b]as it pertains to them[/b].



Wish you all well.


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/4/17 22:38Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

One of the things that came to mind as I thought about the story of the Roman Centurion today, is the connection that he made between his authority to speak and to command others, [i]and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth...[/i] and his being under authority himself [i]For I also am a man set under authority...[/i](I don't mean to point this out to suggest we ought to be commanding people to do things!!).


I thought to look at this phrase [i]set under authority[/i], and part of an entry for this passage from Vincent's Word Studies really stood out to me. It says in part:


'The word set originally means arranged, drawn up in order; so that the words might be paraphrased thus: “I am a man whose daily course of life and duty is appointed and arranged by superior authority.”'



More later, God willing.


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/4/17 23:01Profile
Christinyou
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Posts: 3697
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 Re:

So then, what is prophesy?

Whom are the prophets?

Just some, or indeed all, by the Prophet that is in us.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/4/18 11:48Profile
ChrisJD
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 Re:

Hi Phillip :-)


I appreciate what you suggested about all of us being prophets by Christ(Numbers 11:29, Acts 2:1-4).


According to Strong's Greek Dictionary(and using e-sword), one of the primary words that is translated [i]prophesy[/i] in the KJV is:



G4395
προφητεύω
prophēteuō
prof-ate-yoo'-o
From G4396; to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office: - prophesy.



Some of the examples of this, whether of giving direction(Acts 13:2) or of warning for the future(Acts 11:28), and others we mentioned before, not meaning to exclude the preaching of the Gospel, if under the inspiration of God(1 Pe 1:12).



Some time ago we were studying the passages at our prayer meeting in which Mary had met with Elisabeth after recieivng the word of the Lord from the angel Gabriel, and how John as a babe lept in her womb at the sound of Mary's voice, and also how Elsiabeth then, being filled with the Holy Spirit, prophesyed.


While meditating on these things, I thought of some of the things that John the Baptist had said of the Lord Jesus, and how it appeared to me that he did not say these things so much out of a knowledge that he had, but perhaps as they came to him, as though he might not have fully understood the things he said [b]at the moment[/b](consider Mat 3:13-14, John 1:29-33).



Afterwards, as we were sharing prayer requests, the Pastor had went to answer the door and came back to the table very much surprised: he had just been writting down the name of a person that we had had contact with before but who had not come to mind much if at all for some time, and it was that person at the door.





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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/4/18 16:02Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

'The word set originally means arranged, drawn up in order; so that the words might be paraphrased thus: “I am a man whose daily course of life and duty is appointed and arranged by superior authority.”'




One of the things that came to mind in first thinking about this question was how the Lord Jesus had said to the man that asked him to speak to his brother about their inheritence, how He replied to him:


[b][color=660000]Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you? [/color][/b]



And so He didn't judge between them. He could have. Luke seems to indicate that there was a large crowd gathered(Luke 12:1), and He could have demonstrated His Wisdom to them all.


But He choose not to judge between them.



I think about this, and how the Centurion said he was a man set under authority, and how the Lord said that He did nothing of Himself, but as He heard He judged(John 5:30).


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/4/20 20:35Profile





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