| Re: |
It should be noted for historical context the main reason the Jews were troubled over paying taxes was because the coinage in that day had Caesar's image on it. Being that Caesar was treated literally as being a god, the coinage was looked at by the Jews as idolatrous in nature. This, also in part, is why the money changers existed in the temple. The Jews wanted any money given to the temple treasury to be free from idolatrous contamination. Thus, the money changers would exchange currency for these purposes.
Just some further thoughts :-)
| 2009/4/19 6:21||Profile|
| Re: Classic Sermon Index Rabbit Trail|
This thread was started by someone who was just sharing some pictures from a Tea Party in his area. That's it, just sharing pictures; no comments, no opinion...just some nice pictures.
That original post was followed up by some back and forth conversation about other local Tea Party's that took place in other parts of the country. Also, someone mentioned that he was proud of his country and his service to this country because he sees Americans taking advantage of the liberties for which he fought and for which others have fought and sacrificed their lives. It was nice.
There was no mention of revival coming through a Tea Party.
There was no mention of forsaking prayer and using the political arena to advance the Kingdom of God.
There was no call for Christians to attend Tea Parties.
Yet, in classic Sermon Index fashion, the conversation turned and became a debate as to whether or not Tea Parties were biblical.
Was this even necessary?
| 2009/4/19 9:22|
| Re: |
Perhaps it was a little much to get into some of the things we did. My original intent was just to simply share pictures of the event because I noticed that the event wasn't posted in the News items. But, I'm never opposed to spontaneous discussions starting up over anything. It is my belief that theology is life and life is theology.
If a possible edifying theological discussion can occur as a result of just taking some pictures, then I'm good with that. How's the saying go? A picture is worth a 1,000 words. I'm ok with that :-) Somebody I know through work was impressed with some of the photos I took, and wants to use one or two of them for an article he plans on writing. It wasn't my intent to ever be "published" by somebody else, but it looks like that just might happen as well. Which is pretty cool in my opinion, as I do have an admiration for photography as an art and as a form of journalism. I've read a little on the subject, and have a pretty good quality digital camera, a Canon PowerShot is5. It's not quite the DSLR level of camera, but it isn't half bad either.
| 2009/4/19 9:36||Profile|
| King Jimmy|
here's the really sad part of the whole thing:
I feel a little saddened that this topic took off much more than a little thread I posted on the resurrection of Jesus Christ a few days prior.
Thats sad, where are our priorities set, where are our eyes focused?
| 2009/4/19 10:44|
| Re: |
"This thread was started by someone who was just sharing some pictures from a Tea Party in his area. That's it, just sharing pictures; no comments, no opinion...just some nice pictures.
That original post was followed up by some back and forth conversation about other local Tea Party's that took place in other parts of the country. Also, someone mentioned that he was proud of his country and his service to this country because he sees Americans taking advantage of the liberties for which he fought and for which others have fought and sacrificed their lives. It was nice."
If anyone wants to read the first 8 posts, just click on "oldest first," in the little box. There you will hear about media bias and sodomites.
I think the point is that this is a forum, a Christian forum. so if you post something, it could very well be challenged, and frequently is. I think the real challenge is being able to question a premise without attacking anyone's personal character. Most of the people on SI do that very well. That is why I enjoy SI, different opinions from people who love God and , most especially, love His people. Love will always come first. In 1st John we are told that you will "know them by their love for one another." .................Frank
| 2009/4/19 10:50|
Santa Clara, CA
| Re: King Jimmy|
Had taken down a whole reply earlier ...
There is really nothing wrong with this - From the inception to the outcome. It is expected and encouraged that some discussion would ensue and it has been handled maturely.
Not to slight anyone here just some perspective and observance. I do think [i]where the scriptures are silent[/i] comes very much into play and if I may, to ponder the quote that is my signature at bottom.
Am pretty much unbiased and ambivalent to the matter - We are still fortunate to be afforded the rights we do have, where others do not. That including the right to do what we are doing just here - Giving our opinions.
I also wonder at the trade offs we can give to certain subject matter and force the issue in a manner of [i]We ought to be doing[/i] _____ thus and so. If it's not your ... cup of tea (pun intended), again reference the quote mentioned below.
What also came to mind is how, if we are to use the negative connotations and applications of what is warranted\disallowed on this subject matter ... how does the same approach apply to say the abolishment of slavery? Did we not have some very good ministers throw their weight behind this? The civil rights movement ... Careful how I broach this, the emphasis is on [i]approach[/i] and deriving scripture to support the stance(s)- Not the apple to oranges comparisons of subject matter.
Interestingly, even KJ being the originator, innocently enough, showed some sadness that this took off as it did while a post on the resurrection of the Lord did not. I am not sure this is a very good comparison however. It [i]may[/i] indeed be for some a challenge of their priorities -loyalties but in general a larger response to a current event shouldn't be surprising. In fact I recall the post well enough, some things are stated so well they are difficult to respond to ... Just as well, I did happen upon something related yesterday that was on mind to add to it after all.
Another perspective is just one of the grass roots mentality that at least shows some life blood in organizing the ... fed-up-ness to coin a phrase, that just didn't bubble up out of thin air. This has it's orgins in 'protest' going back to the bailout's even of last year. Will skirt the more political aspects of it all but would appeal to what is largely a sort of silent ... minority(?) of the hardworking folks that keep this economy rolling on day in and day out. Rarely do we hear from them in this sort of fashion, most keep to themselves and go about their work. Others who are now in the unfortunate position of being out of work, what do they do, by and large ...? Sit and wallow? I would suppose the greater majority of even those who were protesting last week will be hard at work this week seeking [i]work[/i] if they are out of it or hard at work as is the norm that are employeed. Of course the abuses and those who will expect the Gov. to 'take care of them' but I do not believe half as much of the rhetoric is actual nor factual that Americans are not some of the most industrious, innovative and hard working people on the planet. Patriotic? Or just ... truth? There used to be something known as the "Protestant work ethic" it may lay dormant in the vehnacular but it is still in the water and the genes even if and by assimilation.
The whole realm of 'nominal' believers is fodder for another thread, but my observance is still that the extremities get the attention and where 'we' of a serious Christian mind tend to see what we want to see and often propose "God's judgment" upon "America" for the antics of the same styled 'protester's' who are better organized and are constantly more vocal for getting their peculiar 'rights' assessed upon everyone. Even when they are just a fraction of the population. It is difficult not to recall;
Gen 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
My premise is that the picture is skewered, not that we have an overwhelming abundance of righteous Christians inhabiting the country. Just some, just enough perhaps. I felt compelled to offer this as it came my way elsewhere and does tie into a lot of the 'air' that is being fostered of "Judgment" that is what we are either experiencing or expecting.
As an aside to the recent 'complaint' vocalized in this situation, which I find no problem with, in fact it does throw a bit of argument on the idea that Americans are going to just lay down and take the proposed/suggested/speculative idea of 'socialism' without a fight.
Thankful. Thankful to live here. Thankful everyday for all the blessings we have, it is often guilt inducing to reflect that while I have so much in the simplest of things others do not even have shoes to wear on their feet - Or food, or shelter, or any of the myriad of things we so often take for granted.
In a nut shell, we are predominantly a nation of plumbers - we put in the plumbing and fix the leaks - You just rarely get to hear from them.
Feel like if I don't balance this out it may get misconstrued. None of this diminishes the atrocities of abortion or the moral bankruptcy that is evident - It is not one side being pumped up over the other- Only to lend some perspective to it all. I think I have just about had it with the misconstruing of data/facts/information to support things that have no basis in truth. It is very much the reason for the post on gullibility and critical thinking and the challenging of our many, many 'prophets' in whatever guise of delusion they labor under. It's just not right to mislead, misconstrue - It goes to the very heart of what [i]we[/i] as Christians are supposed to [i]be[/i] and far over what we pontificate on.
Off on a tangent I suppose and just some random food for thought.
One last piece of curiosity, one section of scripture that has challenged me for years and years and that I would offer to what this subject matter boils down to, namely money. Just to let it stand alone, without comment, but if it is not applicable in principle if not beyond;
Luk 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
I do intend to mean the whole context of this.
| 2009/4/19 12:19||Profile|
| Re: |
"Thankful. Thankful to live here. Thankful everyday for all the blessings we have, it is often guilt inducing to reflect that while I have so much in the simplest of things others do not even have shoes to wear on their feet - Or food, or shelter, or any of the myriad of things we so often take for granted."
PS...Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council preached this morning at the church I attend, International House of Prayer. It was a good, well balanced sermon, probably online.
| 2009/4/19 15:09|
| Re: |
I can see both sides of this discussion, and on one hand we are citizens of another kingdom so our faith in not in any political system but on the other hand, we are called to be salt and light in this world and to speak out against unrighteousness and injustice.
We are blessed to be connected with intercessors that pray for government. We have seen a wonderful change in the state of Louisiana. as a result of the prayers of the saints. We now have a governor that is born again that put into effect major ethics reforms within the state. Louisiana was once known for its corrupt leaders and politicians, but is now being recognized for the many changes that are taking place under the current administration.
There are prayer meetings that take place in the state capitol, and there are members of both the state house and senate that attend some of the meetings that are being held throughout the state.
Tony Perkins is from Louisiana, and he has sent out an important prayer request to the intercessors throughout the nation.
I received a special request from Tony today, asking that I contact you to help enlist the nation's intercessors to make this an urgent prayer focus. Here is Tony's note:
While I am passionate about our mission to advance faith, family and freedom, I am experiencing a deep stirring within my spirit over the Sebelius nomination that does not come often. I think this nomination will move our nation toward yet another immoral milestone. We've had pro-abortion politicians and cabinet members who have had no regard for the unborn before, but Sebelius takes it to a new level. This is a woman who has literally advanced, if not built, her political career with blood money, money that came directly from George Tiller's abortion clinic.
What makes this different from almost every other pro-abortion politician is that her alliance with the abortion industry is with the darkest side of abortion. George Tiller is a late term abortionist that specializes in destroying the lives of babies in the second and third trimesters. These are healthy babies, most of whom could actually survive outside the womb, at the point he performs his destructive acts.
It is clear why Sebelius initially tried to hide this direct connection to Tiller's clinic when she failed to report this information to the U.S. Senate. This connection to Tiller is even outside the mainstream of the Democratic Party. This is the second time Sebelius' integrity has been called into question, the first time when it was revealed that she had not paid all of her taxes.
Now that her ties with the darkest side of the abortion industry are known, if she is successful in her bid to head up HHS, the largest federal agency, which oversees the nation's health care system, it will send a very clear message to politicians - you can align yourself with the abortion industry without personal or political consequence.
This sets a new level that our nation will have sunken to.
We need to pray specifically that her nomination will be aborted - that either she or the Obama Administration will withdraw her name or the Senate will refuse to confirm her.
Right now neither looks possible, but we know that with God all things are possible.
Pray for Senator Sam Brownback, who is presently supporting Sebelius for political purposes, will have a change of heart and announce his opposition to her nomination.
Pray for the resources we need for FRC to educate the public on just how radical Sebelius' alliances with the abortion industry really are.
Pray that Senators will begin to question the integrity of Sebelius and her alliance.
Please hear Tony's heart. Thank you for any help you can give him to reach God's intercessors across America
Tony will be on the ground in Kansas for the next two days, praying, preaching and working to draw national attention to this sordid matter.
Please be in earnest intercession for Tony during the next 36 hours. The spiritual principalities and strong holds related to abortion are strong. Tony and everyone you know who is involved in this sphere has encountered strong spiritual opposition when confronting these powers. Pray for God's favor as Tony speaks - for receptive ears - for protection for Tony and his family - and for the FRC staff on the ground with him. Pray that there will be a major breakthrough.
If you have any questions, feel free to call me (see contact info. below).
P.S. The attached Prayer Alert went to our prayer team on Friday. Please feel free to pass this on to your trusted prayer warriors. The attached Alert is posted on the Web at http://www.frc.org/prayerteam/urgent-prayer-alert---special-prayer-needed---kathleen-sebelius.
Rev. Pierre Bynum
Chaplain & National Prayer Director
Regional Director for Church Ministries
| 2009/4/19 15:36||Profile|
| Re: Tea Party's|
Great pics! Thanks for sharing them! There was nearly 2000 that showed up here in Colorado Springs.
All I can say to what [I] feel is pure ignorance on this thread is that, although I did not vote for Obama, he is now employed by me. Since he is my employee, I have the freedom and authority by the governance of Scripture and United States law, to voice my concerns.
To be told that I or anyone else has no Scriptural backing to do so is living in falicy.
Voicing my concern to my employees - Pres. Obama and the whole government, does not, in the slightest, diminish my walk with Christ.
| 2009/4/19 16:02||Profile|
| Re: |
I was at church this morning and Tony did not mention Sebelius or that particular issue. I believe that his sermon went straight to the heart of the real problems in America, the heart of the people, starting with the Church. He identified the church as the main problem and His Scripture was....
2Ch 7:14 if My people, who are called by My name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from Heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
He stated that no matter who is elected in the coming years or decades, it will not bring the change that is required. As soon as they post the sermon on the IHOP site, I will post it here. Or you can look for it yourself. His message is very much the message that you will hear on SI and at the revival conferences.............Frank
| 2009/4/19 16:04|