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2Co 10:3 For though walking about in flesh, we do not war according to flesh.
2Co 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds,
2Co 10:5 pulling down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought into the obedience of Christ;

 2009/4/16 23:48









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Quote

"Murmurings and disputings" is about cancerous and abusive speech that is done under one's breath. It is not the expression of disagreements on opinions and issues of policy."

G1261
διαλογισμός
dialogismos
dee-al-og-is-mos'
From G1260; discussion, that is, (internal) consideration (by implication purpose), or (external) debate: - dispute, doubtful (-ing), imagination, reasoning, thought.

Matthew Henry says of these verses......

"The apostle exhorts them in these verses to adorn their Christian profession by a suitable temper and behaviour, in several instances. 1. By a cheerful obedience to the commands of God (Phi_2:14): “Do all things, do your duty in every branch of it, without murmurings. Do it, and do not find fault with it. Mind your work, and do not quarrel with it.” God's commands were given to be obeyed, not to be disputed."

God commanded to render unto Caesur the things that are Caesurs and unto God the the things that are God's. This is directly from the mouth of Jesus and is later backed up by the Holy Spirit through Paul. If a Christian engages in protests against this teaching, can any good come of it?......brother Frank

 2009/4/17 0:07









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Quote:
God commanded to render unto Caesur the things that are Caesurs and unto God the the things that are God's. This is directly from the mouth of Jesus and is later backed up by the Holy Spirit through Paul. If a Christian engages in protests against this teaching, can any good come of it?......brother Frank



Paul also had no problem whatsoever invoking his rights as a citizen of Rome to defend himself, to speak his message, and to have an audience with the Roman authorities, Frank. He did this several times, especially when he was wrongfully arrested.

You have to take scripture as a whole, not scissor cut the parts you like.

The tea parties were non-violent. The tea parties were Americans simply exercising their rights to freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, and freedom of redress.

There was nothing illegal about them. In fact they were encouraged by our founding fathers and by the constitution and the bill of rights... which were all written by men who for the most part believed in the same Lord as we do.

I fail to see a problem, and I fail to see anything unbiblical. The tea parties were not doing anything that Paul didn't do, and that Luke recorded in Acts under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

If you feel a conviction not to participate, then dont sin against your conscience. But dont condemn those who dont share your conviction.

And by the way, I think the tea parties should have started during the Bush administration. However, the fire wasnt hot enough to get people motivated. It is now.

And by the way, I have no problem with those whom I disagree with politically doing the same thing so long as it is done legally and with order. I served my country in order to protect their rights too. I know for a fact that most other veterans feel exactly as I do. I dont have to like what they have to say, but I do support their right to say it... in a legal and orderly way.

Krispy

 2009/4/17 7:31









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And Frank... as to my walk with the Lord... I'm not sure why you brought it up on this thread, but I'll go ahead and answer that question:

Yes.

Will you now argue to the contrary? ;-)

Krispy

 2009/4/17 7:36









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Quote

"Paul also had no problem whatsoever invoking his rights as a citizen of Rome to defend himself, to speak his message, and to have an audience with the Roman authorities, Frank. He did this several times, especially when he was wrongfully arrested.

You have to take scripture as a whole, not scissor cut the parts you like."

Krispy, are you saying that the Scriptures contradict themselves? Did Jesus lay to rest the question of tax's or not. When Paul teaches to pay your tax's without question, is he right or wrong. If Jesus did put it to rest, if Paul is correct and if the Scriptures cannot be broken, and they do not contradict themselves, then where does that leave Christians who protest the paying of tax's? As to me supposeldy questioning your relationship with the Lord, well, anyone with a good heart who knows me will know that was not what I was doing. Hopefully I answered that question in my PM to you..........Frank

 2009/4/17 9:16









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Quote:
Did Jesus lay to rest the question of tax's or not.



Amazingly, Jesus never corrected anyone when they talked about sinners and tax collectors in the same sentence, 8-) and the one tax collector Jesus knew...he saved. Matthew repented and left his tax collecting...interesting.

Just for the record God, Himself, warned Israel of the evils of human government. When Israel demanded a human king, just like the heathen nations, God told them what would happen...

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No one is protesting the paying of taxes, but they are protesting the destruction of liberty in paying too much tax. We still live in a country that offers us the opportunity to freely protest the actions of our government. If a christian chooses to do that, then they are free to do that. Someone mentioned protesting against abortion, well, our taxes pay for abortions; Is it okay to protest taxes in the context of protesting abortions?

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 2009/4/17 10:06
fuehrerbe21
Member



Joined: 2008/10/21
Posts: 151
Wisconsin

 Re:

Jesus told us to render to Caeser what is Caeser's, but he never told us we had to enjoy doing so.

I'm with Krispy on this one.


_________________
Ben Fuehrer

 2009/4/17 11:43Profile









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Mahoney writes...

"No one is protesting the paying of taxes, but they are protesting the destruction of liberty in paying too much tax. We still live in a country that offers us the opportunity to freely protest the actions of our government. If a christian chooses to do that, then they are free to do that. Someone mentioned protesting against abortion, well, our taxes pay for abortions; Is it okay to protest taxes in the context of protesting abortions? "

Wow Mahoney, talk about strangling a concept. You should be a contortionist :-)

It was a protest against tax's. You may be the only one who thinks differently. And I think, and you can correct me if I am wrong, that you do so because you are uncomfotable with what Jesus clearly taught and what the Scriptures clearly teach. To me, this is where philosophy and Scriptures meet in a head on collision. You simply cannot hold Scripture to be correct and also justify a Christian protesting tax's, or maybe you can :-) The last question you asked had already been asked and answered. The answer was Nero.

Rom 13:3 For the rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the bad. And do you desire to be not afraid of the authority? Do the good, and you shall have praise from it.
Rom 13:4 For it is a servant of God to you for good. For if you practice evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword in vain; for it is a servant of God, a revenger for wrath on him who does evil.
Rom 13:5 Therefore you must be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience' sake.
Rom 13:6 For because of this you also pay taxes. For they are God's servants, always giving attention to this very thing.
Rom 13:7 Therefore give to all their dues; to the one due tax, the tax; tribute to whom tribute is due, fear to whom fear is due, and honor to whom honor is due.

Do you know who the ruler was when this was written? Pop quiz :-) ............Frank

 2009/4/17 11:48









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If we grudgingly and reluctantly follow the commands of God, then we need to look to ourselves. Jesus simply did not care about the taxes issue, He knew that the issues of our eternal state were what was truly important. The fleeting political issues of the day will not seem very importnat when we stand before God.........Frank

 2009/4/17 11:52
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

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It is a mischaracterization of those here to say we are protesting the paying of taxes. No one here takes such a position. What the Tea Parties sought to do is to send a message to our elected representatives that we don't want to pay more taxes than we have to, and that we don't want them to wastefully spend our money on things we don't approve of. Such is not a spirit of rebellion, nor if done in the right spirit is it "murmurings."

Appolus, I believe you are misreading what is going on in all of this.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2009/4/17 11:58Profile





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