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theopenlife
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

Having come from one camp to the other, I am familiar with the counter points being made and can only say there were responses to these which satisfied them for me.

As for what it means for Satan to be bound at present, consider that Christ is really, but not literally, a Lamb who sits upon a throne. Likewise, Satan is really, but not literally "bound with a chain." He is prevented by angelic forces from leading the world in a collective deception and persecution of the Church, the likes which has never been nor shall again be.

As for the first resurrection pertaining to regeneration, this seems fairly apparent from Eph. 2:1-2, and Rev. 20:6 - those who take part in it are holy. The promise given is that those who are regenerated shall not die in vain, but depart to be with Christ the King, as the adopted heirs of God, until the "thousand years" are complete.

 2009/4/14 2:28Profile
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re: Amillennialism

luk1:32  He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33  And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

jesus will sit on davids throne and reign.


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CHRISTIAN

 2009/4/14 3:33Profile
theopenlife
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

James says this is fulfilled already:


Acts 15 -

"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."

The Jews read Amos 9 and looked for a physical kingdom. James interpreted it by the Spirit and showed that it is already here, as a spiritual kingdom.

 2009/4/14 6:30Profile
JaySaved
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Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

BlazedbyGod said:

Quote:
if the prison, chain, and bottomless pit are all symbollic, then do you believe that the "ANGEL" that John saw is also symbollic?



The angel can be literal or symbolic, it doesn't seem to matter. It could be a literal angel. Just because I see the chain, pit, and seal as symbolic doesn't mean I think everything is symbolic. Some things can be literal, for example Satan.

Quote:
Also, if it is with the coming of Christ that @ BSatan is bound-then what does it mean for Satan to be loosed-does this mean that Christ will have to re-ascend back to Heaven so that he can be loosed?



Well, Christ is currently in Heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father (Psalm 110:1). Satan is currently bound, but the restraint will be loosed at the end of the age so that Satan can deceive again. Why? I have no idea, we will have to ask God about that. :-(


Quote:
AM's say the gospel binds Satan, but then when it comes to Satan being loosed, how can that mean anything else except possibly that Satan began to prevail against the Gospel-but then AM's won't say this?



Satan is given the authority to wage war and for a time conquer even the saints Rev 13:7. But, Satan's end is sure and Christ will conquer. Satan will temporarily prevail against the gospel, but this is short-lived.

 2009/4/14 20:27Profile
JaySaved
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Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

lovejt:

Quote:
There's alot of things that come up with the Amil position that shows its on unstable ground. The explanation of the first resurrection is one of them. Amil argues this is when you are born-again instead of the glorious hope at Christ's return. That is a big red-flag.



We have to determine how many deaths are in view according to Revelation 20.
There are two:
First, natural death
Second, eternal death
Look closer at Revelation 20:4-6:

In verse 4-5, we see two groups: 1) The people who die during the Millennium and 2) those who "die" (raptured) at the return of Christ at the end of the age. (This is similar to Paul's writing in 1 Thessalonians 4:17-21).

Those who die during the Millennium reign with Christ in heaven.
Those who "die" when Christ returns do not "come to life" until then.

It is this "coming to life' that is called the First Resurrection. The First Resurrection is just another way of saying "Born again" (John 3) because it basically means that the Second Death has no power over them.

I admit that this is not a rock solid interpreation of this, but as of this moment this is where my study has brought me of this topic.

 2009/4/14 20:40Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

HI again everyone,

JaySaved,


Quote:
Satan is currently bound, but the restraint will be loosed at the end of the age so that Satan can deceive again.




Satan has never stopped deceiving(2Co 11:3, Mat 24:5 - 1Jn 4:3, 2Co 11:14, 1Jn 5:19, 2Ti 3:13 - Jn 8:44, Rev 12:9).


The Gospel is not a bottomless pit.


A bottomless pit with a [b]seal[/b] set upon it is not a throne and kingdom from which to devise lies and false religons that sway vast portions of the population of this world(Eph 6:12).



Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/4/14 21:08Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Michael,






Quote:
James interpreted it by the Spirit and showed that it is already here, as a spiritual kingdom.




I think this is a good point. But also, I think that spiritual does not have to exclude physical(1 Co 10:3-4, 15:44) or that they should both not be together at some point in the future.

I think that there is more(Mat 25:31, Luke 19:11-17, 1 Co 4:8, Rev 2:26-27,3:21, 1Co 6:2-3, Rev 20:4).


Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/4/14 21:23Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

I think this is a good point. But also, I think that spiritual does not have to exclude physical(1 Co 10:3-4, 15:44) or that they should both not be together at some point in the future.



Indeed, this is a point many forget. Biblically speaking, this is a pattern the Scriptures consistently maintain. The spiritual always has tangible physical counterparts. Part of this is why physical miracles even occur. Such outward demonstrations are demonstrations of a spiritual kingdom. Indeed, the entire story of redemption as laid out in the Scripture is dependent upon this very thing.

That is why though we are redeemed presently, we await the "redemption of our bodies." (Romans 8) That is, the resurrection of the dead and the millennial reign of Christ.


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Jimmy H

 2009/4/14 21:38Profile
KingJimmy
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 Re:

Quote:

Satan is currently bound,



As somebody who used to lean towards Amillennialism, I can sympathize with this position. But I seriously must ask, where in all of the entirety of Scripture is Satan ever presented as presently bound? So far as I have studied, Satan is presently as the god of this age who is actively blinding the minds of those who do not believe, actively deceiving people, and is the "god of this world." Not only that, but he goes about freely, as a roaming lion, actively devouring whomever he can.

Indeed, the spirit of anti-Christ is ever present in this world. How can this be if Satan is presently bound?


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Jimmy H

 2009/4/14 21:45Profile
Christinyou
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Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Christ is our Armour, and Satan cannot attack unless he is given permission as with Paul, who ask for the messenger to be taken away, that Satan might flee, But God did not for Paul's good and God's glory. To keep Paul from being puffed up. Only with permission can Satan cause any problems for those that have the Armour of God, for who is the Armour of God?

Ephesians 6:10-24 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things: Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts. Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen. Written from Rome unto the Ephesians by Tychicus.

We have Christ, Put Him on and the devil must flee.

We have no power to rebuke Satan, the Christ in us is why He must flee, that is the Armour that cannot be penetrated unless our faith has not Christ in its formation in us. Believe and Satan must flee, it is Christ in you that Satan must flee from, by His Faith in us that the Armour of God is protecting us from, any fiery darts and His lies, trying to get us to acknowledge the he has power us.

Ephesians 6:10-24 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on (Christ) the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you (Christ) the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, (in the liberty where with Christ has made you free) having your loins girt about with truth, (of Christ) and having on the breastplate of righteousness; (Christ who is our righteousness) And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; (which is Christ) Above all, taking the shield of faith, (The faith of Jesus Christ) Gal 2:16&20:
wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, (the Spirit of Christ) and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: (Who is Christ) John 1: 1-4 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things: Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts. Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen. Written from Rome unto the Ephesians by Tychicus.

In a sense, Satan is bound, but bound in Chains in a sealed pit, but bound by the power of Christ in the Believer. This is where Satan does his best work, deceiving believers that he still has power over them. So my brethren, "Stand fast in the liberty wherein Christ has made you free".

Ps 89:28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
Ps 111:8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.
Jer 46:14 Declare ye in Egypt, and publish in Migdol, and publish in Noph and in Tahpanhes: say ye, Stand fast, and prepare thee; for the sword shall devour round about thee.
1Co 16:13 Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.
Ga 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Php 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Php 4:1 Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.
1Th 3:8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/4/15 2:32Profile





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