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crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Procterandgambleites


[b]Trademark of the Beast[/b]

[i]June 10, 1998[/i]

Here's proof that you can't stop an urban legend, not even in a court of law.

In 1997, Procter & Gamble filed the most recent in a series of lawsuits against Amway Corporation and several of its distributors for allegedly spreading rumors to the effect that P&G, maker of familiar household products such as Mr. Clean and Tide laundry detergent, is affiliated with the Church of Satan.

In evidence, P&G lawyers submitted the transcript of a voicemail message in which an Amway distributor could be heard relaying what they characterized as false and malicious statements about Procter & Gamble to associates, including the allegation that the president of the company had avowed his personal allegiance to Satan on a nationally-televised TV talk show.

The text of the voicemail recording appears been lifted practically verbatim from a flier that has been circling the globe for many years via fax, snail mail, and, more recently, email. The rumors upon which it is based have existed for close to three decades and are still running rampant despite Procter & Gamble's best efforts to combat them -- as evidenced by a forwarded email that showed up in my inbox just last week:

PLEASE MAKE A DIFFERENCE
The President of Procter & gamble appeared on the Phil Donahue Show on March 1, 1994. He announced that due to the openness of our society, he was coming out of the closet about his association with the church of Satan. He stated that a large portion of his profits from Procter & Gamble Products goes to support this satanic church. When asked by Donahue if stating this on t.v. would hurt his business, he replied, "THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH CHRISTIANS IN THE UNITED STATES TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE."

Product list includes:
Cleaning supplies: Bold, Cascade, Cheers, Joy, Comet, Dash, Spic & Span, Tide, Top Job, Oxidol, Ivory Dreft, Gain, Mr. Clean, Lest Oil, Bounty Towels
Food: Duncan Hines, Fisher Nuts, Fisher Mints, Dehydrated Fruits
Coffee: Folgers, High Point
Shortening Oils: Crisco, Puritan, Fluffo
Deodorants: Secret, Sure
Diapers: Luvs, Pampers
Hair Care: Lilt, Head & Shoulders, Prell, Pert, Vidal Sassoon, Ivory
Acne Product: Clearasil
Mouthwash/Toothpaste: Scope, Crest, Gleam
Peanut Butter: JIF [nr] Personal Hygiene: Always, Attend Undergarments
Lotions: Oil of Olay, Wondra
Soap: Camay, Coast, Ivory, Lava, Safeguard, Zest, Oil of Olay
Fabric Softener: Downy, Bounce
Citrus Punch: Sunny Delight
Medication: Aleve, Pepto-Bismol

If you are not sure about the product, look for a Procter & Gamble written on the products, or the symbol of a ram's horn, which will appear on each product beginning on April. The ram's horn will form the 666, which is known as Satan's number. Christians should remember that if they purchase any of these products, they will be contributing to the church of Satan. Inform other Christians about this and STOP buying Procter & Gamble Products. Let's show Procter & Gamble that there are enough Christians to make a difference. On a previous Merv Griffin Show, the owner of Procter & Gamble said that if Satan would prosper he would give his heart and soul to him. Then he gave Satan credit for his riches.

Anyone interested seeing this tape, should send $3.00 to:
DONAHUE TRANSCRIPTS, JOURNAL GRAPHICS
26 BROADWAY NEW YORK, N. Y. 10007

WE URGE YOU TO MAKE COPIES OF THIS AND PASS IT ON TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE. THIS NEEDS TO STOP. LIZ CLAIRBORNE ALSO PROFESSES TO WORSHIP SATAN AND RECENTLY OPENLY ADMITTED ON THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW THAT HALF OF HER PROFITS GO TOWARDS THE CHURCH OF SATAN.


Apart from the partial roster of Procter & Gamble products, which is accurate enough as far as it goes, the message contains nothing but false, misleading, defamatory statements without a shred of evidence to support them.

[i]Cont.[/i]


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Mike Balog

 2009/4/2 23:49Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Procterandgambleites

The allegations aren't even plausible. There is no single "owner" of the Procter & Gamble Company blessed with the ability do whatever he likes with the profits, let alone tithe them to Satan. P&G is a publicly held corporation (as is Liz Claiborne, another company alleged to participate in Satan worship). The profits go to shareholders, to whom the companies' officers are answerable for every penny spent.

It's laughable, in any case, to picture the figureheads of such hugely successful companies — even if they did happen to be fanatical devil-worshippers — avowing their love of the Prince of Darkness on national television. People don't achieve that level of power and success by being morons.

What's more, we have Donahue's word for it that the president of Procter & Gamble never appeared on his show, let alone laid claim to being a Satanist:

[i]April 5, 1995
To Whom It May Concern

It seems impossible that the rumor of an appearance by the President of Procter & Gamble on DONAHUE is still circulating after more than a decade. There is absolutely nothing to this rumor.

The president of P&G has never appeared on DONAHUE, nor has any other P&G executive.

Anyone who claims to have seen such a broadcast is either mistaken or lying. It never happened!

Sincerely,
Phil Donahue[/i]

(Source: Procter & Gamble)

Donahue wrote this letter back in 1995, remarking even then that false rumors of an appearance by P&G's president on his show had been circulating for more than a decade.

The flyer claims the interview took place in 1994.

Nor was this the first statement Donahue had ever made on the matter. Jan Harold Brunvand, who debunked these selfsame rumors in his 1984 book, The Choking Doberman, reported at the time that Donahue, along with fellow talk show host Merv Griffin, had publicly denied the rumors as far back as 1982 (which was the same year, coincidentally or not, that P&G filed its first lawsuit against an Amway distributor for allegedly spreading misinformation about the company).

[b]Satan's number[/b]

Does the number 666 — the numeric "mark of the Beast" said to represent the Antichrist in the biblical Book of Revelation — appear in a ram's horn on Procter & Gamble packaging, as alleged in the flier?

No. There is no symbol of a ram's horn on P&G products, period. Once upon a time, the company logo featured a line drawing of the Man in the Moon with flowing white hair and a beard which curled off to a point in each direction [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procter_&_Gamble#Logo_controversy](see example)[/url]. Granted, these could be imaginatively likened to ram's horns, but there is no reason to think they were intended to be seen as such, nor any reason to suppose that the designers embedded a secret reference to the number of the beast within them.

It's a moot point anyway, since the logo hasn't appeared on Procter & Gamble products in years.

[b]The religious factor[/b]

Despite the fact that its claims are not only demonstrably false but downright silly, the Procter & Gamble rumor continues to enjoy a global circulation both online and off, partly because it plays into the paranoid fears of its intended audience.

"There aren't enough Christians in the United States to make a difference," Procter & Gamble's president supposedly announced. Outlandish as it may seem to believe that such a prominent company -- one that prides itself on being a "household name" -- would alienate every Christian on the planet by aligning itself with Satan, there are obviously a great many people ready and willing to believe it. As Jeff Siemon of Search Ministries observes, the rumor is especially compelling to "Bible-believing" Christians because it fits into a world view that presupposes a literal battle between the spiritual forces of good and evil on earth:

[i]When we think of hoaxes that relate to conspiracies that are being concocted against Christianity — in the case of Madalyn Murray O'Hair or Procter & Gamble — this is in some sense consistent with the Biblical understanding that a great war rages at a spiritual level. Certainly there are enemies of the faith. This does not mean that these hoaxes are real, but there will be resistance and enemies of Christianity. The Christian, with an understanding of the Biblical world view, is sensitive to these kinds of responses against the Christian faith.[/i] (Source: Christian Coalition Website)

Defending the faith does not require abandoning reason. Bob Passentino, another evangelical leader, argues bluntly that some Christians are just too gullible: "It's not just a stamp we're wasting. It's our credibility. Our credibility is on the line. People might think if Christians are stupid enough to fall for this falsehood, maybe early Christians were gullible enough to fall for the resurrection story."

The issue goes beyond credibility; it's also a moral one. People who believe they're combating evil by spreading unverified rumors may in fact be doing just the opposite. Tempting as it may be to always look for deceit in high places, we would all do well to remember that lies, intentional or otherwise, can just as easily pass from our own lips or through our computer modems. Before sharing such scurrilous allegations with others, we ought to stop for a moment and consider whose interests are really being served.

[b]Update:[/b] In January 2003, the U.S. 10th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a lower court's dismissal of Amway Corporation as a defendant in the lawsuit, chastising Procter & Gamble for "vague and confusing legal arguments."

[b]Update:[/b] In March 2007, Procter & Gamble was awarded $19 million in its lawsuit against four Amway distributors for disseminating rumors tying the company to Satanism.

[url=http://urbanlegends.about.com/]About.com: Urban legends[/url]

[url=http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/procter.asp]Trademark of the Devil[/url]


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Mike Balog

 2009/4/2 23:59Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: Procterandgambleites

(edit)

Interesting stuff Mike.

MC



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Mike Compton

 2009/4/3 6:34Profile
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 454
Michigan

 Re: Procterandgambleites

This first started over thirty years ago. I believed in it at the time because this sort of thing is fun to believe in. My excuse is that I was about 12 years old.


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Wayne Kraus

 2009/4/3 8:19Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Procterandgambleites

[b]Robb Thompson preached a message of fear and dread[/b]


In 1999 I paid close attention to the teachings of one particular minister: Robb Thompson, pastor of Family Harvest Church in Tinley Park, Illinois (formerly called Midwest Christian Center), and host of the TV show, Winning in Life. My interest in Thompson was due in part to the fact that I lived in the Chicagoland area at the time, my brother-in-law knew people who attended (what was then called) Midwest Christian Center, and he and I even had the opportunity to attend a pool party at Thompson's multi-million dollar home. [3] But my biggest interest in Robb was due to the repeated warnings he gave to his congregation about the horrors of Y2K (which I heard via his television program).

Robb Thompson preached a message of fear and dread, and - with all the melodrama of a Left Behind novel - alluded frequently to how Y2K could very well signify the "beginning of the end." Of course, nothing happened. January 1, 2000 came and went without incident. By January 2 the clearance racks of every bookstore were filled to capacity with the all the prophecy books fortelling the doom and gloom of Y2K, and how "the end is near." I saw several stores with books marked up to 80% off. They couldn't give those books away! The authors don't care; the poor souls who bought the books became their cash cow in 1999. Thus, while I'm certain many of them could care less, more than a few of these writers of false prophecy lost all credibility. I also know of a few folks with basements full of canned goods who vowed never to return to Midwest Christian Center.

Why are people so prone to such invincible irrationality? At risk of oversimplification, the problem lies in pastors who care more about money than ministry, media who care more about ratings than reality, and a majority of citizens who embrace feeling over fact.

Nevertheless, Robb still has his job, and is going strong three years later. Why? Because the same gullibility that led so many of Robb Thompson's followers to blow their savings to stock up on canned goods also led most of them to believe whatever excuse Mr. Thompson concocted to cover his behind. I'm sure there are those who attend Robb Thompson's church who are genuinely seeking God. I'm also sure there are several who are only after the "health and wealth." Robb uses both motivations to his advantage, which means, financially speaking, Robb Thompson is currently "winning in life." A man may gain the whole world, but at what cost?

The event undeniably more significant than Y2K was the terrorist attacks in 2001 (the year which marked the real beginning of the new millennium). Y2K and 9-11 were both huge news items for the media, and several members of the media exploited them for the sake of higher ratings. When Y2K was seen as a real threat to many, the media often catered to the fears of the public. In the days, weeks, and months following 9-11, the media relied on their familiar modus operandi: sensationalism. Does anyone deny the damage this type of programming can cause? The National Mental Health Association doesn't deny it, and, as the one-year anniversary of 9-11 approached, the Association cautioned that people should "cut back on TV time" to avoid adverse effects. [4] Many so-called journalists, like Robb Thompson and the afformentioned authors of false Y2K prophecy, care only about personal gain. Truth and propriety are abandoned when either becomes a hindrance.

http://www.a180.net/y2k_editorial.html


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Mike Balog

 2009/4/3 8:34Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: Procterandgambleites

Quote:
Truth and propriety are abandoned when either becomes a hindrance.



This can describe the buyer as well as the seller.

MC


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Mike Compton

 2009/4/3 12:11Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4476


 Re: Procterandgambleites

Thanks Mike!

What is so sad is that you can say this to some believers...show them "evidence" online...show them webpages and court documents where P&G actually SUED people for spreading this...and you will STILL have some of those same believers claiming that it is still true. The "evidence" doesn't really matter when these sort of people so badly want the outcome to be otherwise.

Hmmm...it makes me think of some of the petty doctrinal issues that serve to divide believers. Are people looking for evidence to support their views...or are they searching for truth regardless of the outcome? It makes me wonder how many of us [i]strain a gnat and swallow a camel[/i]?

:-(


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Christopher

 2009/4/3 13:39Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Procterandgambleites

[b]Apocalypse Then[/b]

[i][b]Remembering the Y2K Hysteria[/b][/i]


Exactly ten years ago this week I preached in our church's morning service. I can't remember if John MacArthur was ill or suddenly called out of town for some reason, but I remember being asked very late to fill in. I had about 24 hours to prepare.

It being the first Sunday of 1999, I decided to preach an appropriately forward-looking message on Matthew 6:34 and its context: "Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself."

In those days, the evangelical world was at the peak of the Y2K insanity, so I made reference to that issue in my message. At the time, Gary North was operating a heavily-trafficked website that included this:

Quote:
[i]We've got a problem.[/i] It may be the biggest problem that the modern world has ever faced. I think it is. At 12 midnight on January 1, 2000 (a Saturday morning), most of the world's mainframe computers will either shut down or begin spewing out bad data. Most of the world's desktop computers will also start spewing out bad data. Tens of millions—possibly hundreds of millions—of pre-programmed computer chips will begin to shut down the systems they automatically control. This will create a nightmare for every area of life, in every region of the industrialized world.




North's Web site had links to more than 3,000 places where you could read similar doom-and-gloom predictions about the Y2K crisis. He grimly told visitors to his Web site that they had better heed these doomsday warnings, or they would certainly regret it.

Today, he admits, "I did not understand the Y2K thing in any sort of detail. I took someone elses [sic] word for it. . . ."

At the time, he was saying:

Quote:
It took me from early 1992 until late 1996 to come to grips emotionally with the Year 2000 Problem. You had better be a lot faster on the uptake than I was. We're running out of time.

I don't mean that society is running out of time to fix this problem. Society has already run out of time for that. There are not enough programmers to fix it. The technical problems cannot be fixed on a system-wide basis. The Millennium Bug will hit in 2000, no matter what those in authority decide to do now. As a system, the world economy is now beyond the point of no return. So, when I say "we," I mean you and I as individuals. We are running out of time as individuals to evade the falling dominoes . . .. We are facing a breakdown of civilization if the power grid goes down.




(It frankly amused me that a postmillennialist like North, who had frequently derided premillennialists by referring to them as "[i][b]pess[/i][/b]imillennialists" would himself make a career of fear-mongering. But that is just what he has done. So much for the vaunted "optimism" of theonomic postmillennialism.)

In my message that morning a decade ago, I pointed out that the spirit of that kind of panic-mongering was 180 degrees at odds with a whole string of Jesus' commands in Matthew 6:25-33. I mostly just explained the biblical text.

I admit I wasn't prepared for the reaction I got that morning. There was a smallish group of people in the church who were fully into the Y2K hysteria, and they approached me in a phalanx as soon as the service was over. The guy who would have been their spokesman (if his wife hadn't kept interrupting him) was so angry he was red in the face and spitting when he talked. He said he was going to meet with the elders and demand equal time to tell the people of Grace Church they needed to start stockpiling food and preparing for the looming crisis. He likened me to me a holocaust denier.

I stood there and listened to them for ten minutes or so until they began to calm down a bit. I let them talk and did not interrupt, except to ask how [i]they[/i] thought Matthew 6:25-34 applied to our society in 1999.

As the spokesdude began to lose some of his steam, he said, "Look: all I know is that if you're wrong, you are guilty of placing the people of our church in mortal jeopardy by not encouraging them to stockpile food and prepare Y2K bunkers. But if [b][i]I'm[/i][/b] wrong, the worst that will happen is that I will have to come back and apologize to you for losing my temper."

"Will you do that?" I asked.

"Of course I would—if it turns out I am wrong," he avowed. "But I am [i][b]not[/b][/i] wrong."

"I will look for you on the first Sunday of the year 2000," I promised.


He moved to a remote part of Idaho that fall because he wanted to be as far as possible from any urban area when all the computers started spewing bad data. One of the hard-core Y2K aficionados in the group actually left his wife when it came to light that she did not share his fear of the coming apocalypse. He likewise moved out of state.

Ten years after the fact, not one of that group of Y2K cadets has ever come back and formally acknowledged that they were wrong, much less apologized for the scene they made that morning.

Gary North is now selling doomsday advice for a monthly fee—[url=http://www.garynorth.com/public/10.cfm]"approximately the cost of one movie ticket, a large box of popcorn, and a large soft drink per month."
[/url]

My advice: the popcorn is much healthier for you.

Even if you load it with butter.

Seriously.

[url=http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2009/01/apocalypse-then.html]Phil Johnson[/url]


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Mike Balog

 2009/4/4 8:54Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7421
Mississippi

 Re:

Mike,

I am curious: why are you bring this subject up now? (BTW, I agree with what you posted..) I think I know the answer but would like to hear what else you have to say...

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2009/4/4 9:06Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Procterandgambleites

Quote:
I am curious: why are you bring this subject up now? (BTW, I agree with what you posted..) I think I know the answer but would like to hear what else you have to say...



Hi Ginny, others ... Apologize if this seems elusive, I am dealing with some things and don't have the wherewithal to write or speak much at the moment. Perhaps later ...

Painting a picture here, something that has been a growing concern for a very long time.


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Mike Balog

 2009/4/4 10:19Profile





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