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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 1st John 2:1

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rometown
Member



Joined: 2006/1/30
Posts: 14
Lansing, MI

 1st John 2:1

1 John 2:1. My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Recently I have been in "discussions" with a "friend" about this verse. He says in the oldest Greek translations of this verse there is a qualifier "and I do (sin)" after if any man sin. now I have never took a class or picked up a book on reading or speaking Greek. However, I would challenge that due to the fact it is not in any translation of the Bible I could find. Nor does it follow after the rest of the HOLY BIBLE. if there be any Greek specialist out there please post back or contact me personally.

 2009/3/31 20:02Profile
TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re: 1st John 2:1

I've never heard of such a variant, nor do I see what it would add to the letter.

The sheer fact that it is not even in the footnotes of any Bibles I've seen makes me suspicious your friend has some wrong information here.


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Taylor Otwell

 2009/3/31 20:19Profile
rometown
Member



Joined: 2006/1/30
Posts: 14
Lansing, MI

 Re:

Like I said I don't know much about Greek and can only assume his intent is good. My thought is the plural part of the scripture is getting put in the wrong place. I just don't know. It all Greek to me!!!
Thank You for your post!

 2009/3/31 21:57Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Regardless of what some people may think, I think most Bible translators are relatively honest. If there is a variant reading, it is usually included in the footnotes of the Bible.

I'm sure your friend is sincere in his claim, however, it appears to be unfounded.

With care in Christ,
Taylor


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Taylor Otwell

 2009/3/31 22:41Profile
BeYeDoers
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Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re:

i've never heard such a thing. it's not mentioned in the 4 Greek NT I have, nor by Clarke, Barnes, Robertson, JFB, Wesley, Gill, or anyone else I've ever read!


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Denver McDaniel

 2009/3/31 22:42Profile
tozerite
Member



Joined: 2009/7/2
Posts: 18
Plano, TX

 Re:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that in 1 John 1, the apostle directs his writing to the unbelievers. You cannot appropriate the sacrifice of Christ for sins, unless you acknowledge your own sins before God, he says. If you say that you are not a sinner (as some eastern faiths teach), you make God a liar. The blood of Jesus Chris will cleanse you from your sins, if you acknowledge it and repent of it.

However, in chapter two, John addresses us as Christians and treats sin as an abnormality. Yes, if we fall, we have an advocate with the Father, a propitiation for our sins… but if we abide in Him, we ought also to walk even as He walked… and the word of God abideth in you, and you have overcome the world. The anointing you have received from Him abideth in you… for He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not… whosoever is born of God sinneth not… he that commits sin is of the devil… whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin… hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which he has given us…etc, etc.

I have heard visiting preachers and convention speakers preach on these verses, because their lives were living testimony of the truth of these words. However, in more than thirty years of attending church more often than not twice on a Sunday, in a numbers of denominations, have I never heard sermons on these verses. Neither have I found any pastors willing even to entertain a discussion on the same. Our sinful life is taken as a mark of our fallen nature and pre-resurrection state; a pure necessity of life.

To walk as He walked, we need to die to self. God fills the empty vessel. It is a mighty anointing. Christ, the anointed one. Christians, the anointed ones. Pastors just assume we
are all anointed, and if not, then we should just be happy, not everyone is called to minister, or some such aberration. By His Holy Spirit, we can abide in Him, moment by moment. What a blessed life, and yet I have to search the globe for camp meetings, conventions, conferences, where I can find such teaching and inspirational encouragement.

 2009/7/4 20:50Profile
humblyD
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Joined: 2009/5/14
Posts: 17


 Re: 1 john 1

It seems strange to me to think of 1 john 1 being written to unbelievers and the rest written to christians. Was this letter read to the church? is 1 john 1:9 a one time thing for the unbeliever when he converts? Joseph Prince teaches this way about 1 john 1, so i just dismissed it. just wondered what you think.
in Him,Derek

 2009/7/4 23:46Profile
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: 1st John 2:1

dont know either, "older" manuscripts dont have to be better manuscripts. In the ones mostly used it does not say that ,


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CHRISTIAN

 2009/7/5 1:28Profile
tozerite
Member



Joined: 2009/7/2
Posts: 18
Plano, TX

 Re:

Jesus spoke to Nicodemus, an unbeliever, and it was recorded in Scripture. Some passages in the Bible speak to unbelievers and others to believers.

Most Christian tell me (and pastors) that we have to sin and can't help it because 1 Jn 1 say if we say we have not sinned, we deceive ourselves. Well, then, the rest of the book as I quoted in previous post is a contradiction of what we find in the first chapter. However, if the first chapter was mainly directed at those who are still seeking, or those who claim that there is no such thing as original sin, etc, then think again, because God declare us all sinners.

Now, chapter 2 onwards, as followers of Him, walk a He walked, etc.

However, I said, "correct me if I'm wrong" and you have done well. As the man in orthopeadic shoes, I stand corrected... but I'm of the same opinion still.

 2009/7/5 9:39Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

i think it is good to remember why the apostle john wrote this letter, some of the reasons was that some gnostic teachings was sneaking into the church, some taught that they where perfect and did not have sin, the logical conclusion of that would make a savior of no effect or unnecessary, other teachings where that once you where saved you could live in sin and you would still be saved, they taught much more strange things, but i believe these are some of the things the apostle is trying to correct in this letter.


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CHRISTIAN

 2009/7/5 9:49Profile





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