Monroe, LA - USA
| Re: |
I hope that you didnt think that my purpose for presenting the question was to bash one of your favorite songs. I hope to remain loyal to the description of this forum: ("Test everything, Hold on to the good." - 1 Thess 5:21. Here you will find discussions on all different scriptures and theological positions. Please discuss with an spirit of edification not dissention or strife.). There was a time when I liked the song too, but I hadnt stopped to examine it. I know many people who like the song, and like songs like it. It can give you an emotional high if you let it, but the very reason that I presented the question was to examine what this emotionally exhilarating song is actually doing to the inside of you.
Take, for example, the song that brother Paul presented. You could say that it might make you feel like dirt [Lord, I am vile, conceived in sin, And born unholy and unclean; Sprung from the man whose guilty fall Corrupts the race, and taints us all. . . . ], but it is ONLY when we realize that we are nothing but dirt that the seeds of Gods Word can grow in us and eventually produce fruit. If we arent softened by that reality, then we are like the hard beaten path, or the stony ground, or the thorny ground. We can never become anything that brings glory to God.
Thanks so much for ALL of the great songs on this thread. Songs that spotlight tiny aspects of Gods unfathomable infinite greatness while confessing our absolute nothingness bring glory to God, and put man in his proper perspective. Dust thou art. Morally, physically, spiritually and in every way we are dirt and filth! If we allow God to throw His good seed into us, and something good grows from it, the only goodness will be that which God put there. When Gods goodness grows up in us and covers us, the dirt is no longer seen, yet we remain soft-hearted enough that we live with the realization that we are mere dirt.
Dawn, it is my prayer that you and others will realize the danger of feeding on such songs as this. This song has given you a concept of God that is not really true to the God of the Bible. WHAT WILL YOU DO if next month Gods wrath falls on your beloved country, and everything gets out of control. If persecutors arrive at your door, drag you out in your yard, strip you, and torture you until you die a painful death, will you then think that God has forsaken you? Will you die thinking that He must not exist because He didnt drop what He was doing and stop the marauders?
Dawn, ever day (God bless their hearts) Christians in other countries face similar trauma. You can read about it on this website: [url=http://www.persecution.org/suffering/index.php ]VOM[/url] PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE examine what you are listening to. Such songs will be like the rocks beneath your soil. When the sun comes out and scorches your life, your roots will not be deep enough to stand the test. I have seen it too many times. God calls us to examine ourselves, and to examine the fruit of the "trees" that call themselves ministers: Matt 7:15-20.
Thanks theopenlife for the scripture Isa. 43:7 and commentary which clarifies the whole issue. Gods number one priority is made very clear in that verse. So true, Jesus-is-God: HE never needs to stop doing anything to do something else - HE's omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent - and ALWAYS "with us". All the words in this song humanizes HIM.
Thanks for your input
| 2009/3/26 0:12||Profile|
| Re: |
If nothing else, this Gaither song chips away at God's attributes. He is omniscent, He's omnipresent... etc etc. Therefore He doesn't need to stop what He's doing to pay attention to me... He is the ultimate multi-tasker!
This is nothing more than a trite Sunday schoolish song designed to get the audience clapping. I dont think Gaither is intentionally trying to propogate false doctrine, and I do hope that he is more doctrinally sound than this song suggests.
I'm not a fan of Gaither or southern gospel. Just dont like it. Grew up hearing it in relatives homes... it was George Jones and drinking/cheating songs all week, and southern gospel on Sunday. I saw first hand the hypocrisy of some who perform southern gospel. It just turned me off completely.
Of course, that is not to say that all in southern gospel are like that. I know there are very sincere people in southern gospel. Just explaining why I dont care for it myself.
| 2009/3/26 8:29|
| Re: |
It figures I would own a CD that everyone here calls humanistic and evil...I happen to really like that song.
I don't like it, but if you like it that is certainly your preference. There is a lot of Christian music out there that I simply do not care for, and some of it can be anointed have all the right words etc.., but it just doesn't fancy me. However, I have seen others who listen to it and get blessed.
There are songs in the old song book that are not scriptural. Here is one:
"They searched through heaven and found a saviour". Who was the "they" and why did they need to do a search? God told Adam and Eve that Christ would come. No search was needed, God knew the solution before the problem began.
The problem is that we are wooed by the tune. The words don't mean nothing any more, it's the tune the rhythm, it makes us feel good.
For example there are some music in the world that have a great tune, we know it's the world but the tune is alluring. For example, "Hold on tight to your dreams" by ELO, that has such a great message and the tune is melodious, but it's still the world.
| 2009/3/26 10:09|
North Central Florida
| Re: Is this song doctrinally sound?|
"He might be busy painting rainbows,
or making demons flee."
What are they thinking? They must have been desperate to fill out an album and took anything that sounded like a 'God' song.
Give me the old hymns, Holy, Holy Holy (a wonderful song of praise, great for singing in the early morning) and What a Friend we have in Jesus (carried with me on 4 x 6 cards, can't tell you the comfort I have received just reading 1/2 a verse when at the eye doctor on Monday).
So, Yes, I agree with you, today's so called 'Christian' music is depressing. There is no Gospel in it, no wonder it is depressing. How can you be Spirit filled from the image of God the Gaither Vocal Band paints? Sounds more like a Fairy from a childs book.
Give me the songs sung by the old paths. The straight and narrow path!
| 2009/3/26 10:21||Profile|
North Central Florida
| metrical psalter|
You have now hooked me on this. I have to get a book like that of the whole Bible.
What a marvelous thing, I wonder why it is not brought out to view? Let us sing Psalms, now I see how it could be done. Amazing.
| 2009/3/26 10:37||Profile|
| Re: metrical psalter|
There are several quality Psalters available.
A search for "The Comprehensive Psalter" should turn up some results - it is published by Blue Banner Books.
"Psalms of David For Singing" is also good. It is published by Crown and Covenant Publications.
The Comprehensive Psalter is primarily in common metre for easy singing. I think the majority of the Psalter is basically a reprint of the 1650 Scottish Psalter.
I personally own both of these Psalters and recommend both.
Thankfully, a family has recorded 50 common metre tunes while singing the first few lines of the first 50 psalms, so you can learn a lot that way, and interchange them how you like. Also, both of the psalters I listed contain the music, just as a hymnal would. I will include the link at the bottom.
I don't say this to cause a stir, but just to present a historical fact. In the historic Reformed churches, psalms were actually sung [b]exclusively[/b]. The singing of the words of men was considered improper for corporate worship. They only sung infallible songs. This is actually still the practice of many conservative Reformed Presbyterian churches. They viewed "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs" to refer to the name distinctions given to the psalms in the Book of Psalms.
Given the choice of singing the words of God or singing the words of man, I choose the words of God.
50 Psalm Tunes: https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=11801194222
Crown and Covenant Publications: http://www.crownandcovenant.com/
Scottish Metrical Psalter Online (Free): http://www.cgmusic.com/workshop/smp_frame.htm
With care in Christ,
| 2009/3/26 11:14||Profile|
North Central Florida
| Re: |
Dear Brother Taylor,
Thank you for the links.
| 2009/3/26 11:29||Profile|
| Re: Is this song doctrinally sound?|
I say this as one who loves Jesus, who loves God, born a Jew, saved by Grace, leaning on Faith, believeing in the Promise, fearing aand revering God, but this thread just breaks my heart.
"Lorddoitagain", why would you even deign to make such a post? You had your answer, you knew your answer, so why ask the question? To recieve a chorus of "yes" and "amens" from fellow saints as they heap scorn on an artist expressing his love for God as he is led to?
Who are any of you to judge the love another "broken clay jar" expresses to God?
Personally I've never heard of the Gaither Vocal Band, I read the words of the song, its just, in their words, expressing joy at the fact that God loves them. What is wrong with that?
answer me this: God made us in His image, Adam and Eve's rebellion in the garden brought sin and death into the world. Yet God had Mercy, God sent His Son Jesus in love, to atone for us, the final Pascal Lamb, God loves us, and we are all human, all too human, but God loves us, so God loves humans, that's us, so is God "humanistic"? Oh! I KNOW God is Holy, God is omnipresent, Above all and sovereign, but some of you use framing words, such as "humanism" just like razors to cut and wound others.
answer me this, [b]How does this thread bring Glory to God?[/b]
Lorddoitagian, I respect with total love your freedom to express your opinion, but how does this edify the Body of Christ....forget about the word "Christian" for a moment, but you expressed this opinion:
I have felt for many years that many of the problems plaguing Christians today have to do with a lot of the music that modern Christians listen to.
That's the problem plaguing many Christians? The "music" they listen to? The problem plaguing the Body of Christ, His Church is the absolute utter lack of unity, the hard-hearted pharisaicism and eagerness to cast judgement and scorn amongst one another, hearts grown cold and dead supping on "doctrine", and using theo- factions to battle one another, the readiness to stand in the public square and POINT THE FINGER and proclaim, "heretick!"
Your tongue's, that tiny "rudder" in your mouths, that can set a forest on fire, THAT is the problem plaguing many "Christians" today, just tearing apart the Church, even to the point of making the word "evangelical" a framing word, secularists use to buttress the hypocrisy of what passes for Christianity.
and what comes from the tongue, emanates from the heart, and a heart yielded up to Christ, says , "Lord Thy will be done". It doesnt say:
That song made me sick - sorry - but it made GOD seems as "human" as Santa Claus
Yes, it made me sick.
UGH!!.....Foolishness, garbage, hellish.
or I ask brother Paul West, who I love in the Lord, when you extol a song written by Isaac Watts in 1719 that says:
Jesus, my God, Thy blood alone
Hath power sufficient to atone;
Thy blood can make me white as snow;
No Jewish types could cleanse me so.
"Jewish types"? Paul, I read how many believers "love" the Jews, many ministries formed precisely to preach the Gospel the Good News to the Jewish people, but as probably the only Jewish follower of Jesus on this forum, (if there's others, speak up) how do you think I feel when I read that rhetoric? Knowing the blood soaked history of my kinsmen who suffered and were murdered at the hands of "christians" thruout the centuries, who would kill Jews with these words on their lips, "kill a Jew for Jesus", thru the "holy roman empire", thru the crusades, thru the steppes of russia, lead by the latter poisonous rhetoric of martin luther, gathered and slaughtered by a demon hitler and his hellish legions, all the while being given spiritual covering by the "official" german lutheran "church" and their clergy, given cover by that man of perdition the pope in rome, the vatican being the first to officially recognize diplomatically the nazi regime of hitler.
That's the Sweet Incense of Jesus that is draw the Jewish people to jealousy? to repentance? to proclaim, "Messiah is come and His name is Jesus"? That's the witness?
WAKE UP! 2,000 years of "church history" and its the rebellion and hard-heartedness alone of the Jewish people that has kept them for recognizing Jesus as Messiah?
The devil is cunning and evil for it is also the innate hatred and wickedness and deceit of the human heart among some of those, especially many clergy and laity that just outright plain hate Jews, that has kept my kinsmen in bondage.
What have you all done that would bring ANY Jew into jealousy of so "great a salvation"? Embarking on threads like this? or other threads, the constant revolving divisive debates about "marriage/divorce", "Cal/Arm", "KJV-only-ism"?
and then finally, one sister, who happens to like this song is told by you, "Lorddoitagain":
I hope that you didnt think that my purpose for presenting the question was to bash one of your favorite songs. I hope to remain loyal to the description of this forum: ("Test everything, Hold on to the good." - 1 Thess 5:21. Here you will find discussions on all different scriptures and theological positions. Please discuss with an spirit of edification not dissention or strife.).
The spirit with which you wrote that is clean, praiseworthy and good. Yes! "Test everything", but test it with Whom? Other "clay vessels", who's third post on this forum reads:
YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its just your usual humanistic fluff disguised as the gospel.
That is discussion? Edifying? Sans a spirit of dissension and strife? or to post a hymn that speaks of "Jewish types"?
Many can, and I'm sure will accuse me of a spirit of dissension and strife, but brother, early this morning I had a joyous time with the Lord, digging into Isaiah 52 to 62, reading and eating from the Word, how that great prophet foretold the coming of Messiah, and in the hope that I would find some edifying nugget on this forum, I stumbled onto this very thread, which has just left me broken hearted.
This has been a long time in brewing on this forum. I do so enjoy when saints testify to miracles, praise reports, prayer requests, expressions of fervent Love of God, but when the "opinions" of mere men rear their ugly heads, as when a pastor is excoriated for appearing on a network news show to counter secularists, and said pastor is slandered, something is very very wrong here. Search your hearts, as I am searching mine.
In Jesus' love, neil
| 2009/3/26 12:05|
| Re: |
For what's it's worth, the phrase "Jewish types" wasn't meant as a derogatory reference to Jewish people but was referring to Old Testament Christological "types"; those parts of Jewish scripture and religious practice that serve as specific and uncanny foreshadows pointing to the living Messiah. (the antitype.) Watts was echoing Paul when he said "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins."
So, there is nothing back-handed to Jewish people in the lyrics of Watt's song, nor in Paul's West decision to include it here.
| 2009/3/26 12:11||Profile|
| 2009/3/26 12:57||Profile|