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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Some Thoughts on Wilkerson's Word and Prophecy In General

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KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Some Thoughts on Wilkerson's Word and Prophecy In General

Let me say outright that I have mixed emotions concerning David Wilkerson. In many things, I admire this man. No doubt, he has been awesomely used of the Lord over the years, and few ministries that I know of in America can even begin to compare their fruit with his. I very much appreciate many of the stern messages brother Wilkerson has given over the years, some of which have shot an arrow through my own heart. With that said though, I have personally heard Wilkerson say some things "prophetically," in speech and in writing, that clearly were not from the Lord, and indeed, the Lord used time to show they were not of Him.

Personally, I can point to some things Wilkerson has said that indeed came to pass. Likewise, I can point to some things Wilkerson has said that did not come to pass. Some of these things though, I have heard him publicly repent of from his own pulpit. How closely he monitors such predictions, I'm unsure. But he does seem to hold himself accountable for whatever he says just the same. He is one of the few prophetic people I have known, that when "missing" a word by speaking presumptuously for the Lord, actually has confessed to doing such. Instead of blowing off a failed word as being from a "immature prophet," as many do so easily today... and in private at that, he openly confesses to such sin before the entire church. And of course, whatever he says before the entire church quickly is transmitted through the world wide web, newsletters, the radio and television. Whatever one's opinions, his speaking, no matter how right or wrong, always seems to be accompanied with a sense of integrity about it.

Thus, while I always have some reservations concerning our dear brother, I do take him very seriously, and always seek to carefully weigh his words. As I said, I do believe he has been mightily used of the Lord in the past, and still is today. Even though I have my reservations in regard to Wilkerson, without reservation I have distributed some of his sermons to others in the past, and have used "The Cross and the Switchblade" as an evangelistic tool in my area... and plan to continue to do such in the future as well.

When judging a prophetic word though, while it is important to consider a prophet's history, each word must be weighed on its own individual merits. If each message is to be a once and only "event" as Art used to say, then each unique event must be judged by its uniqueness, and whether it stands up to the scrutiny of the Scriptures and the Spirit as He indwells other believers.

As far as Wilkerson's usage of Scripture as found in this word, I personally can find no fault with it. No doubt, not every citation stands up to the rigors of the historical-grammatical rules of interpreting the Scriptures, though much of it does. While not wanting to slight the importance of using the historical-grammatical method of exegesis, if you really closely study the Scriptures you will find that this method was not always used by the Lord, the apostles, or the writers of the Gospels. Indeed, without getting caught up into a full-blown discussion of the issue, you will often find NT citations of the OT do not follow this rule, and sometimes even deliberately break such a "rule" of interpretation (even in Messianic fulfillment passages!) Indeed, sometimes all a citation of the OT in the NT is looking to do is take the "spirit" of what that passage was saying, and apply it to whatever situation is being addressed. For example, Paul cited an OT law about not muzzling an ox while it is threshing to prove that one should financially support those engaged in ministry. From the historical-grammatical method of interpretation, this is simply irresponsible on Paul's part. But what he quotes is in keeping with the "spirit" of what is being said, and thus, none of us find fault with the apostle. Such examples could be multiplied by the dozens for those interested in a real in depth Bible study. But, I will not belabor this point any further...

As far as the scrutiny of Wilkerson's word against the indwelling Spirit of other believers, while this word does not seem to be hitting a home-run with everybody, I do find that this word is in keeping with the spirit of many other such words currently being proliferated across the body of Christ. Indeed, the church being the prophetic body it is supposed to be, seems to have been anticipating the current events and other things that are to come quite well. Such a word that Wilkerson has published here is indeed in keeping with the words many other sober minded God fearing individuals have been saying for some time. Of course, that is not to say the church hasn't had some measure of failure in regard to these things... indeed it has. But at least in my own personal network, locally and across the country, this seems to be a message that many in the body of Christ have been preaching. Indeed, even in my own local fellowship, which has had some flirtations with the Word of Faith/Prosperity Gospel message, this word about difficult days ahead has been sounding much more loudly than anything else, and even in direct contradiction to things previously said. The Lord started waking us up a couple years ago about some of these things.

Personally speaking, the Lord has been saying to me for quite some time, "Violent days are ahead." I know, one needs no personal prophetic word from the Lord to know such. Undoubtedly, the Scriptures teach that violent days will be merely a characteristic of the age we live in. But with that in mind, I believe the Lord has "quickened" what the Scriptures clearly teach in a general sense, for my personal application and for those within my sphere of influence. Indeed, such is clearly in keeping with the prophetic tradition which we as a church are all part of. Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc., were not innovative prognosticators in their predictions. They were individuals who were simply echoing what Moses had said long before them, and in his words found soon-coming applications for the age they were apart of. They "found" these applications in the Scriptures through the "quickening" of the Spirit of God within them. If such were a characteristic of the old dispensation, how much more then should this characteristic not be a defining mark of our present dispensation, in an age which God has poured out His spirit on all flesh?

As to the specific things Wilkerson is predicting, while I believe his words are probably of the Lord and will probably come to pass, we must ultimately objectively weigh such with a "wait and see" attitude, as Deuteronomy 18 demands such. Even if Wilkerson's specific word does not come to pass, and he spoke this word presumptuously and in error, I think his message is still in keeping with what God has been echoing throughout the body of Christ in America and abroad. He may not have received this message from the Lord and heard from heaven the things written in his article, and the Lord may not have sent him to speak this message to the nations, but I think he still has heard one way or the other what God has been saying to the church in large. And indeed, many even in the secular media have picked up on this message, as I believe they have heard something of the Lord in it too.


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Jimmy H

 2009/3/12 8:53Profile









 Re: Some Thoughts on Wilkerson's Word and Prophecy In General

Thats a good word brother...........Frank

 2009/3/12 9:06









 Re:

Absolutely... this is where I am on this too. Just couldnt articulate it very well.

Krispy

 2009/3/12 9:19
Santana
Member



Joined: 2006/8/17
Posts: 286


 Re:

Well said!


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Leonardo Santana

 2009/3/12 9:44Profile









 Re:

Amen and yes Brother, you have worded this very well.

My heart is just sunk that the big name men didn't say the same.

I felt they used this as an opportunity to draw men onto themselves.

I'm sorry - but there was a lack of respect for the BODY of Christ being ONE Body by their sarcasm and it has done more harm than good in the middle of the shock of this message to some.

Their Critiques have caused "confusion" and did not bring the Peace that is so needed within His Body.

I see a post of DW's pointing to JESUS.

That is what these other men should have done and left off the DW bashing.
My eyes have been fighting tears ever since and have felt so tossed, at the splitting of His Body that has come about through the critiques of these other "leaders."
Anything that splits His Body is not the [i]Fulfilling[/i] of Ephesians 4:11-16 .


I think you've done the best analysis yet.
Thank you!!

 2009/3/12 13:22
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Amen Jesus-Is-God. If we are going to be openly critical of somebody, we need to do so with a spirit that looks to edify the body. Any much needed criticism must not center itself with the one somebody thinks to be in error, or the actual error itself, but rather, it needs to be a correction centered in Christ. When we read Paul's epistles, for example, he is often busy refuting error. But even in the midst of correcting error, he is so busy trying to set forth Christ to his hearers that when we attempt to reconstruct the exact arguments of the heresies that were propigated in his day, at best we get sketchy formulations of what those errors were. Christ was the center of all apologetics and polemics.

If brother Wilkerson has been or is presently in error, then we should not hesitate to point out such. But when we do, let's do so in a way that brings all of us closer to Christ, and by bringing us closer to Christ, we become closer to one another.


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Jimmy H

 2009/3/12 17:48Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3142


 Re:

The Holy Spirit has used David Wilkerson to speak directly, and piercingly, to my situation on so many occasions, that I can not begin to count them. He has used him to bring me up from the depths of despair, and down from the heights of pride. At exactly the time that the Lord really started working on me, David Wilkerson's first newsletter appeared in the mail - I had no idea who he was or why I was receiving his newsletter.

To me, what he wrote the other day rings with the same truth that I have heard from the beginning. I have taken in his warning, and the Lord has started to direct me accordingly.

I am not sure why, but I really felt the need to say this.

 2009/3/12 18:38Profile









 Re:

Brother KJ, Sunday night the World Bank pronounced that 2009 would get worse.

Tuesday, the Omnibus bill was passed, pumping another 410 bn into "?" as with all the other stimulus packages passed.

I don't see that as a coincidence.

ALL economists in the world - on BBC, NPR, AM or FM radio, the Internet predicted just what the World Bank said this past Sunday Night .... so WHY is the Stock Market rising?

I can only give you my opinion - artificially pumped or manipulated by all of these "packages" that congress was forced to pass.

After what the World Bank said Sunday night - the Market should have gone down.

Unemployment rises as we speak. Spending down - everything down but the stock market??

I believe this is happening for several reasons and just one small reason [if I may use that word understandably] is because of this Blog-Email that went out - to discredit.

Of course it is also to further scramble the minds of men and women who put their trust in the Market to survive - which is a psychological disabling method.

False hope and then major let downs shake people to the core of control of themselves etc.....

Suddenly - these banks and GM have no real problems -

only the big guys got a piece of the stimulus pie.


I think I'll end this here, but I will say that because DW is in the big-apple, his words do count.


Doesn't it say that the children of darkness are wiser ....?

But not wiser than our Omniscient LORD and GOD!

The Gates of Hell will not prevail against HIS Church.


And Amen HeartSong.

 2009/3/12 18:56
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I'm no economist, but as a novice trader/investor, I believe the only reason the market has gone up in the last couple day is because it dropped for so many days in a row and so quickly, people are just taking advantage of some sales on the market. It's a temporary bounce on the way down the hill. Most analysts were calling this bounce for the last couple weeks... especially early on this week.

Of course, the Devil is probably looking to discredit such words and give them a false hope. "Natural market forces" demand that even in the middle of a crash that there will be bounces along the way down. I believe the devil will take advantage of such natural forces.


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Jimmy H

 2009/3/12 19:01Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 832
Alberta, Canada

 Re: Some Thoughts on Wilkerson's Word and Prophecy In General

Hi Jimmy.

I posted the following comment on another thread a few days ago, but things move so fast on this page these days that it got buried almost immediately. So I decided to lift it and post it again on your thread. It appeared on Wayneman's "Wilkerson's Prophetic Scoreboard." Sure, Wilkerson has not always hit the mark... but I think people ought to read that "scoreboard." Pretty sobering.

(By the way, I too was a little disappointed with the way certain leadership handled this.)

Here's my earlier post.

Re: Wilkerson's Prophetic Scorecard

There are so many threads up now concerning David Wilkerson's recent "Urgent Message" that I don't know where to post what I want to say.

But personally I take his recent message very seriously... and feel that certain leadership who have called this in question have not weighed carefully enough what they put forth.

Yes, it may be said (perhaps) that Wilkerson doesn't quite have 20:20 vision, spiritually speaking. But this does not make him a false prophet. I look at the whole man, and his integrity, and his faithfulness, and the obvious evidence that God is with him.

We are not at the place yet, I think, where any prophets in the church have the testimony Samuel had, which was that "the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall the ground" (I Sam. 3.19). In other words, every single word Samuel spoke came to pass. We are not there yet, but I believe in due time we shall be.

But for many years, David Wilkerson has been sounding an alarm. He is a faithful watchman (he doesn't call himself a prophet, actually). He has faithfully sounded the alarm concerning what is coming. Surely we ourselves are hearing that, aren't we? I believe if we are listening in on the Lord these days, and hearing what the Spirit is saying, we are hearing this alarm.

"...The day of thy watchmen, and of thy visitation, cometh..." (Micah 7:4).

Someone asked (on another thread) what the purpose of such a message would be.

Well, what is the purpose of a trumpet that sounds an alarm? Awaken! Prepare! Seek God!

And Wilkerson is not the only one sounding this alarm these days. For many years now, God has been faithful to send, "rising early and sending," those with a message warning His people about the days that are at the door.

We do well to heed Him, I would say.

And so, speaking of 20:20 vision, I am reminded of 2 Chr. 20:20. "Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper."

...It is a very critical hour. Hopefully we are not waiting for the crisis to hit before we get our relationship with the Lord to where it needs to be. I think we should seek these days to be living in such a way that, when a great shaking takes place, it doesn't overtake us by surprise: no changes in our life are necessary; we are already living a life in which our ear is bent toward our Lord Jesus, listening, and ready to do His will. All the time.

Let us be looking to our Lord to bring us deeper into that abiding relationship with Christ. We need to be seeking the grace to abide in Christ. That is the only place of safety (as always), being in Him, and in the centre of the will of God.

AD



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Allan Halton

 2009/3/12 19:28Profile





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