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moreofHim
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Joined: 2003/10/15
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 John Piper Testing Wilkerson's Message

[url=http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/1670_testing_david_wilkersons_prophecy/]Testing David Wilkerson's Message[/url]

Testing David Wilkerson’s Prophecy
March 9, 2009 | By: John Piper
Category: Commentary

The Bible says, “Do not despise prophecies, but test everything; hold fast what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:20-21).

David Wilkerson will cause a good many hearts to pound faster with his pronouncement that “AN EARTH-SHATTERING CALAMITY IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN.” New Yorkers especially will swallow hard: “It will engulf the whole megaplex, including areas of New Jersey and Connecticut.”

What shall we make of this? The part that depends on the Bible we should take with absolute seriousness. You don’t need to have special revelation to know that the rejection of Jesus Christ as Lord is the norm in America. Therefore, we stand under the judgment of God and it is only a matter of time till the present judgments (Romans 1:18-32) give way to spiritual awakening or punitive calamities (2 Thessalonians 1:6-8).

But the part of the prophecy that goes beyond what the Bible says, we measure by biblical standards. Two things give me pause in Wilkerson’s extra-biblical specifics.

First, it does not resonate with my spirit when he claims that God told him to “lay in store a thirty-day supply of non-perishable food, toiletries and other essentials” because when disaster comes “grocery stores are emptied in an hour.” God might have said this. But it doesn’t smell authentic to me. Too prudential. Too reminiscent of the embarrassing Y2K excesses.

Second, my confidence level drops when the Scriptures are not handled carefully. Wilkerson says, one way we can respond is: “As David says, ‘He fixed his eyes on the Lord on his throne in heaven—his eyes beholding, his eyelids testing the sons of men’” (Psalm 11:4).

This does not have the feel of authority to me because what Psalm 11:4 really says is: “The Lord is in his holy temple; the Lord’s throne is in heaven; his eyes see, his eyelids test the children of man.”

So my take on this prophetic word is that the scare will probably do good for a lot of people. The Bible is a scary book. And the future that is coming on unbelievers is scary beyond anything any preacher could conjure up.

But my own effort to be discerning says: Stick with the Bible, David. It is scary enough. And it is absolutely true. And your credibility will never fall.


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Chanin

 2009/3/9 13:04Profile
hulsey
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 Re: John Piper Testing Wilkerson's Message

Quote:
First, it does not resonate with my spirit when he claims that God told him to “lay in store a thirty-day supply of non-perishable food, toiletries and other essentials” because when disaster comes “grocery stores are emptied in an hour.” God might have said this. But it doesn’t smell authentic to me. Too prudential. Too reminiscent of the embarrassing Y2K excesses.



I don't really know if this was meant to be prophetic or just good and wise advice. We live and have grown up in America at a unique time when our 'storehouse' [i]is[/i] the local supermarket. And working in one I can tell you that it is an unsound foundation to say the least. If something of a national crisis happens it would not take long for the shelves to empty and the transportation system of new supplies could easily become overburdened.

When I was a child, my great grandmother always kept a ready supply on hand of canned food and food that she had raised in her garden. (She had lived through the great depression btw.) It was a common chore for me to walk up the street to 'Grannies' house to get a jar of stewed tomatoes or some other vegetable for my mom to cook.

Without being an alarmist, stocking up on non-perishable foods sounds like a good practice to get in the habbit of in these times. After all the wise man sees the trouble in the way and prepares, the fool goes on and is punished.

Blessings,
Jeremy Hulsey


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SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2009/3/9 13:30Profile









 Re:

Quote:
First, it does not resonate with my spirit when he claims that God told him to “lay in store a thirty-day supply of non-perishable food, toiletries and other essentials” because when disaster comes “grocery stores are emptied in an hour.” God might have said this. But it doesn’t smell authentic to me. Too prudential. Too reminiscent of the embarrassing Y2K excesses.





I respect and listen to John Piper but I think he's gravely mistaken on this. Piper seems to imply that God does not warn his people about what is coming nor give them direction to prepare.

However if you read acts you will see a prophet who prophesied of a coming famine. The result was they made provision for saints living in Judea. The prophecy wasn't given so people would just have knowledge about the famine. What purpose would that serve?

"Then one of them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine throughout all the world, which also happened in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Then the disciples, each according to his ability, determined to send relief to the brethren dwelling in Judea." Acts 11:28-29

Agabus did not give this prophecy to scare people. It was given because it was of the Lord.

Quote:
So my take on this prophetic word is that the scare will probably do good for a lot of people. The Bible is a scary book. And the future that is coming on unbelievers is scary beyond anything any preacher could conjure up.



Piper seems to be accusing David of scaring people when you can clearly see that's not Davids intention. He also seems to be accusing Piper of conjuring up this message. I find that disturbing.

I certainly think Pipers word (reply) also needs to be tested with scripture.

 2009/3/9 13:56









 Re:

Quote:
I certainly think Pipers word (reply) also needs to be tested with scripture.



I agree that there may be some confusion on brother Piper's side and was going to write nearly the same things you did before I saw your post brother.

TSC testifies against NYC, and America as a whole, as the ark testified against Noah's generation. While wallstreet and the American "church" were busy building their empires, the Lord sent a young country preacher to the city to warn them... judgment is coming.

In Christ

-Jim

 2009/3/9 14:17
Santana
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 Re:

I got saved at Times Square Church right before 9/11. I walked into something unusual.

I never heard of David Wilkerson but he was at the pulpit saying, "We don't know what's going on but we feel lead to shut down all ministry events, meetings, outreaches, etc. and just come together every single night and pray. A visitation from the Holy Ghost." (my paraphrase)

I didn't know what was going on except that they opened the church every night of the week and the men were on there face crying because something was coming to the city.

3 weeks later 9/11 hit. They knew then and they now! God always warns his people. I was there.


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Leonardo Santana

 2009/3/9 14:25Profile
moreofHim
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 Re: Piper/Wilkerson

Quote:
I don't really know if this was meant to be prophetic or just good and wise advice


I agree it is good and sound advice to have some emergency things stored up. We do this as well- year round.

My only reason for posting this was to give another point of view. I am certainly not saying Wilkerson is unbiblical (just for the record :)

It is a subject for prayer and wise counsel, that's for sure.

In Him, Chanin


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Chanin

 2009/3/9 14:46Profile









 Re: John Piper Testing Wilkerson's Message

Quote:
Re:
I got saved at Times Square Church right before 9/11. I walked into something unusual.

I never heard of David Wilkerson but he was at the pulpit saying, "[b]We[/b] don't know what's going on but [b]we[/b] feel lead to shut down all ministry events, meetings, outreaches, etc. and just come together every single night and pray. A visitation from the Holy Ghost." (my paraphrase)

I didn't know what was going on except that they opened the church every night of the week and the men were on there face crying because something was coming to the city.

3 weeks later 9/11 hit. They knew then and they now! God always warns his people. I was there.
_________________
- Santana



I like that he's surrounded by other Godly men that he can pray with and say "'we' feel that ..."

All this is, is John 16:13 in action with a bunch of surrendered humans.

The reason the versions of Ps 11:4 reads differently is because DW had to change Bible versions to one that 'street folks' can understand. He's just about memorized the KJV so it's hard even for him to read from this newer version - he stumbles over words while reading I noticed because he already knows how it reads in the KJV but he's sort of forced to read a more understandable version for the crowd of New Yourkas. :-) But look at his choir and you'll Praise the LORD. I've heard some of their testimonies and look at them now. In a white robe and there Lifting HIM up. Praise The LORD GOD Almighty for that congregation. They were there for when that plane when down in the Hudson and they'll be there to help others if the market and whatever crashes completely and chaos ever comes there. Tough bunch!


No offense taken MoreOfHim - I don't follow any one man and it's still a free country - we're all entitled to voice our opinions or the opinions of others. Amen. His Peace to you!

 2009/3/9 15:08
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 Re:

Quote:
However if you read acts you will see a prophet who prophesied of a coming famine. The result was they made provision for saints living in Judea. The prophecy wasn't given so people would just have knowledge about the famine. What purpose would that serve?


Amen brother that is a very good biblical answer. Surely God is the same God as in the book of Acts!


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2009/3/9 15:43Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
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 Re:

Quote:
First, it does not resonate with my spirit when he claims that God told him to “lay in store a thirty-day supply of non-perishable food, toiletries and other essentials” because when disaster comes “grocery stores are emptied in an hour.” God might have said this. But it doesn’t smell authentic to me. Too prudential.



"Let Pharoah take action to appoint overseers in charge of the land, and let him exact a fifth of the produce of the land of Egypt...then gather all the food of the good years and store up the grain in the cities under Pharoah's authority...let the food become as a reserve for the land of seven years of famine.

Then Pharoah said, "Can we find a man like this, in whom is the spirit of God?' So Pharoah said to Joseph, 'Since God has informed you of all this, there is no one so discerning and wise as you are.'" (Genesis 41:34-39)


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Paul Frederick West

 2009/3/9 18:11Profile
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Joined: 2007/6/25
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 Re:

Quote:
When I was a child, my great grandmother always kept a ready supply on hand of canned food and food that she had raised in her garden. (She had lived through the great depression btw.) It was a common chore for me to walk up the street to 'Grannies' house to get a jar of stewed tomatoes or some other vegetable for my mom to cook.



I would tend to agree...why risk it. I think the bible is quite clear about being prudent and being a good steward. Also it can be more affordable to buy in bulk too...especially in these times every penny counts.

 2009/3/9 21:05Profile





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