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Joined: 2008/8/4
Posts: 201

 times square church

i am writing this with great heaviness of heart. i went to times square church yesterday for the 3:00 service. a man whose name i did not write down (sorry about that) gave the message, he sounded in accent like he was maybe from ireland or england. what he spoke had many elements of the health-wealth-prosperity thing and i was so sad afterwards, and have not been ok since. how can this sort of teaching come from the same church as david wilkerson? i listened to wilkerson's sermon about the awful presence of God, and i have listened to his sermons before and been so blessed and believe them to be Biblical. i listen to denny kenaston, paul washer, paris reidhead, etc. and by God's grace through these dear brothers have learned the difference between the "God loves everybody and it's all about you" stuff and the truth of glorious gospel of the living God. i felt what i fully believe was the pull of God to go to tsc yesterday, and i couldn't believe my ears...also, during the announcement time they talked about a plan they had for the church members to read the new testamanet and psalms and proverbs by the end of 2009...what? what then of the old testament? and carter conlon talked about that. i don't understand...even now i'm weeping in my very soul over this...i don't come to you with a spirit of gossip, but pleading for some kind of way to make sense of this...i don't get it. i'm like a little kid saying, i thought this was where the good guys are, daddy...i just sat there dazed as i heard the man twist Scripture...i don't know if this guy was a guest speaker and maybe they just didn't ask him enough questions? i don't know what to think, i beg you all for prayers over me that i would be able to have joy in the Lord, knowing His purposes will prevail, as i am devastated over this...and i ask for prayer over tsc that the truth would be preached there, that God's Word would be glorified. maybe i'm wrong too, that could be, maybe i just heard him wrong, but there was a lot of stuff that i just couldn't believe he was saying it. i'm so sad, please help me understand, brethren. maybe i'm the wrong one, maybe i misunderstood him, maybe i am way more ignorant than i thought. it certainly is a possibility. but here are a couple examples so it's not all vague. he said that Jesus saying He was the bread of life meant that even though the world may fall finanically, believers won't have money problems. he used a verse in the old testament to back up his point which was that david wrote he had never seen the Lord's servant begging bread. that is a wonderful verse, but i contend that it is not what Jesus meant when He said that. also, if we see in the new testamant and church history, we know that oftentimes persecution involves poverty, and that is ok, because it brings joy to be counted worthy to suffer with Christ. also this man said that if we go and evangelize that God will save our blood families. he gave some other stuff too, he gave an altar call that just seemed very typical of "churchianity"....i'm really, really not trying to be a jerk here, but i'm devastated, and i deeply need help digesting all this. people's eternities are on the line, and we know many wolves are among the sheep. i'm like a four-year-old, i'm so shocked. please pray God will settle my heart in all this. i can't bear it. i can't. my heart is sobbing. please help.

 2009/3/9 11:01Profile

 Re: times square church

Since you really give no specifics about what was preached, I think I would need to hear the sermon you heard in order to comment intelligently about it.

Thats probably why you havent gotten any responses. (edit: my original post said "expenses" instead of "responses"... I apologize for any confusion! lol! I need more coffee this morning!)


 2009/3/10 7:49

Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2664
Nottingham, England

 Re: times square church

Sister Holly,

Sorry to say this, but you sound a little like 'the sky is falling', if you see what I mean.

As it is, I didn't hear the message, but is something like that going to throw your faith overboard? Is it worth it?

Maybe, I'm just so hardened to this person and that ministry falling, it's kind of like, so what's one more? It kind of getting like that for me anyway.

Our faith should be grounded in the unchanging word of God, not in man, whether he uses a Bible or not.

It's God to whom we have to give account. We all have to. The entire world.

As it is, the word of God says, 'For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind', 1 Tim 1v7.

That settles it for me.

Krispy, what's with the expenses bit, I don't get it.

 2009/3/10 8:45Profile

Joined: 2008/8/4
Posts: 201


you are very right, i just need to be grounded in the Lord. my faith in Christ is solid, by God's matchless grace, but my concern was more for the people who aren't so sure. i was upset that i saw that people would build their faith in God on incorrect promises, you know? where is someone's faith going to be when they expected God to give them financial comfort and the bottom falls out? that's what had me upset. but really, God is bigger, i need to see that more. plus, they are accoutnable to read His Word for themselves and see what Jesus really said in terms of following Him. also, i get way too upset about things that God already said will happen, it all just means His glory shall be revealed, and i don't look upon that near enough. praise God for His perfect will.

thank you all for all your prayers, i need them so much and they have helped; God is faithful and has comforted me much last night and this morning. i tend to wear my heart on my sleeve, which can be a good thing, but also i need to rest in Him so much more. i'm just a year and a half old in the Lord after some years of religion, so there is a way lot i'm still pretty far off about! :)

thank you guys for helping me to see the bigger and more God-honoring picture...

 2009/3/10 9:12Profile


Krispy, what's with the expenses bit, I don't get it.

re-read my post... I fixed it. I was doing some Quick-Books work the same time I was writing that, and also needed more coffee...

It was a goof on my part.

I dont "multi-task" very well! I'm riddled with A.D.D.!


 2009/3/10 9:31

Joined: 2006/2/7
Posts: 57
Bangalore, India

 Re: times square church

Just wanted to add a few thoughts here ...

There are times that I have been offended by what I heard and that too from brothers I know are Godly.
But by God's grace I did not stay there.
I took my doubts to the Lord, maybe I did not understand it as I ought too.
The things that God has been showing me is ...
1. Do not go by the letter, but drink of the Spirit. There are times that a brother may not word it as perfectly as it should be.
2. Maybe there is a big log in my eye that is causing me to see all those specks. As they say to the pure all things are pure. So I need to ask the Lord for clarity.
3. Maybe I do not see it as that brother. Maybe it is just two sides of the same coin?
4. I need to ask the Lord to teach me how to identigy the fruit (his life) and not the gift (his preaching) alone. By a persons fruit we get to know if he be rooted in God.

So if I remain in a place of brokeness, I will always receive the living water from the Lord, as it flows to the lowest place. As I remain in brokness, I will be able to discern and take what is from God and leave the rest.
Above all I can look at people with grace and mercy and take the weakness of others to the Lord in genuine concern and love.

A side note on the promises. I know a brother who said that God's will for all of us is that we be healed of our sickness, but if at all there is a sickness, we can be assured that God wants to bring something better out of that than just health. because God wants the best for us.
Same way, i need to have no concern of my son, if I have given myself to the Lord. Yes when Richard Wumbrand and his wife was in prison, their son was on the street, but God was watching and that was the assurance.
Yes they that put there trust in the Lord will not be put to shame even if need to go through the worst persecution ever.

 2009/3/10 9:31Profile

Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


You need to bring this to the attention of the Staff at TSC.
They need to hear the Message again.
I didn't hear it, but if anything I hear being preached from there, I will let them know.
This Preacher may have slipped by the Pastors.

I have confidence in Jesus Christ who lives in David Wilkinson and Carter Conlon at TSC.

God Bless

 2009/3/10 9:49Profile


I'm listening to a sermon that was preached at Time Square Church by Carter Conlon this past Sunday (March 08, 2009) called "Seeing Christ at the Hour of His Return" ... and if this was the sermon you heard you completely misunderstood it because this is about the exact opposite of the "prosperity gospel" you're saying was preached.


 2009/3/10 9:56

Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 528

 Re: times square church

growingholly wrote:

he used a verse in the old testament to back up his point which was that david wrote he had never seen the Lord's servant begging bread

That doesn't sound like health, wealth and prosperity teaching to me.

also, if we see in the new testamant and church history, we know that oftentimes persecution involves poverty, and that is ok, because it brings joy to be counted worthy to suffer with Christ

That sounds like just the opposite of the health, wealth and prosperity message to me.

also this man said that if we go and evangelize that God will save our blood families

Again, God protecting his own from harm is not even close to being the same thing as health, wealth and prosperity.

I hope I am not being too harsh on you about this, but honestly, you seem to be so sensitive about the gospel not being about blessings toward the believer that you have gone into the ditch on the other side of the road.

 2009/3/10 10:23Profile

Joined: 2009/3/10
Posts: 3



 2009/3/10 10:26Profile

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