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Discussion Forum : General Topics : thou's, thus', shall's and -eths, are they necessary??

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CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

spinalmanu wrote:
I do appreciate the third person plural/singular seeing as my first language is french and "vous" vs "tu" can give more information than simply "you." However, the context of the phrase will sometimes make this unnecessary which is probably why modern english no longer uses it.



Compare,

"Verily, verily I say unto [u]you[/u], [u]you[/u] must be born again"

...with...

"Verily, verily I say unto [u]thee[/u], [u]ye[/u] must be born again."

...in light of the second/third person relationship. Both statements seem to say different things.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2009/2/16 9:30Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

There has been some confusion in this thread about thee/thou/ye/you and which is singular and plural.

Thee/Thou is singular. Ye/You is plural.

Note Luke 22:31-32 for an example. "Sift you" (plural - all the apostles), "prayed for thee" (singular - Peter).

As for a scholarly citation on the usage, I believe Joel Beeke (President of Puritan Reformed Theological) discusses this in his defense of the KJV.

With care in Christ,
Taylor


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2009/2/16 11:34Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4491


 Re:

Hi TaylorOtwell...

From what I have understood, "thee" was simply the objective case (well, usually) of the word "thou."

thou = nominative (subject of the sentence)
thee = accusative (object of the sentence)
thy/thine = genitive (indication of possession)

While there isn't a distinction in modern English between the singular and plural forms of the word "you," is this enough to warrant [i]criticism[/i]? Many of the KJV or Quaker websites seem to have done just that. Yet the KJV also combines four (or more) words into one (love) -- and these aren't mere variations between singular/plural or nominative/objective distinctions.

If any of you (plural) have any links from a website or a citation regarding this issue, please let me know. I am interested enough to look further into it. Thanks!

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2009/2/16 12:56Profile





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