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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Psychology: Science or Religion?

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TrueWitness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 510


 Re:

It is important to note that Martin and Deidre Bobgan do not reject the entire field of psychology. From their book entitled PsychoHeresy:
"When we speak of the leaven of psychology we are not referring to the entire field of psychological study. Instead, we are referring to that part of psychology which deals with the nature of man, how he should live, and how he can change. It involves values, attitudes, and behavior. We will
be using the words psychology, psychological counseling, the psychological way, and psychotherapy interchangeably when referring to, such man-made systems of understanding and
treatment."
PsychoHeresy and their other books are available freely in eBook format at:
http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/bksonline.html

 2009/2/15 9:57Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Arron, "I anticipate a bit of a backlash"

Aaron, No backlash from me, I agree with you 100%.

white stone


_________________
Janice

 2009/2/15 10:13Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

I enjoyed your post Aaron. Thanks for taking the time to engage this topic. I have also been personally impacted by this issue.

There is quite a bit of extremism on both sides of this issue but I believe most of us are on the same one. The Bobgan’s are coming against “psychotherapy”. I have read some of their other material and viewed a DVD they did with the folks from Berean Call ministries. They are careful to state that their objection is the use of “psychotherapy” and the embracing of it’s techniques in opposition to true biblical counseling. There is a big difference. The Bobgan’s also point out that psychology by definition is much more akin to religion than science. They do not deny the fact that the brain can be physically damaged or that traumatic situations can greatly affect people. They merely point out the problems with adopting a secular psychological mind set (psychotherapy) in addressing the issues instead of true biblical counseling.

Biblical counseling has also been done wrong and caused great damage in and of its self. This is probably why good church going people began to drive past the church and pull into the psychologist’s parking lot. Pastors that had no business counseling began getting into trouble. Law suits began to scare the church and that made it much easier to simply defer people to “professionals” for help. The problem with this is that many of the so called “professionals” have eight years of “higher Education” in psychology and very little understanding of the Bible and God’s ways.

The compassion for people and level of understanding required to provide true biblical and Godly counsel comes from above. Years and years of mining the riches of the Word is necessary. No amount of psychological schooling will ever bridge this gap. God will continue to provide all that is necessary for his people. I say this not in an attempt to turn a blind eye to science. Science has much to offer and should never be abandoned. It's just that I have seen people become more fascinated by penicillin than its maker. I believe the during the last few years several organizations have begun to re-focus their attention and produce a much more balanced approach.

God bless you and thanks again for contributing to this thread.


_________________
TJ

 2009/2/15 11:21Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 600


 Re: Arron, "I anticipate a bit of a backlash"

@ Aaron,

I understand what you mean. I have seen mentally ill persons in real life where professing Christians are at a loss on what to do, while they continue to suffer. If we will not be careful and rabidly insist our prejudicial opinions we might as well drive these poor souls into deeper agony.

Sometimes, we need to humbly accept the good gifts from God who gives the sun and rain to both sinners and good men.

 2009/2/15 23:36Profile









 Re:

Dear Brothers, please know that I empathize with those in Any form of mental anguish with much more than just my words typed here, and by profession and ministry, but I am a Bible-Only person.

I've wondered in my early salvation days how GOD's people survived before psychology and psychotropics for close to 6000 years.

Prayer, a brother or sister that is stable in The Word and sensitive to The LORD to talk to & to pray with and feeding on and obedience to HIS WORD and a willing heart & helping people that are worse off then ourselves I believe history can attest to, was what those since creation relied on for a restored or maintained sound mind.

The WORD of GOD is "Living" - as is our GOD - as is our prayers - as is our active faith in HIM & HIS WORD - as is HIS Love for us and in us to others through HIM.

Richard Wurmbrand and multiple thousands of others will testify of this with similar testimonies - some having been literally tortured from childhood on.

HIS Love is the key word in this Brothers.
HIS WORD does heal the mind, if believed in active faith. HE honors active faith. "Trust & Obey" is not just a song - it's true.
Multiple millions of Christians in China, Russia, Africa, Romania, India and so forth can attest to this and since the days of the First Church and back to Eden.
All the countries where "life" itself, from birth on, is at risk, and where these "therapies & drugs" are not available, but GOD has been with those persecuted, tortured and hungry ones, who have given testimony over all of these 6000 yr.s.

Why am I saying this? Because the days are coming that we won't have these "therapies & drugs" ... just as HIS people didn't in our Bibles and times are going to get extremely rough for even the sanest among us.

We're going to need Faith. We're going to have to Trust HIM and HIM alone - even for our daily bread.
And if the Saints in other countries are already tasting tribulation - we should begin to prepare to do the same.

GOD Bless you all with 'HIS' Love, that casts out all fear. Amen.

 2009/2/16 0:41
JesusLoves
Member



Joined: 2009/2/16
Posts: 65


 Re:

You said 'We're going to need Faith.'
That is a powerful statement.
Faith - at times it is a mystery.

 2009/2/16 1:45Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 600


 Re:

Quote:
I've wondered in my early salvation days how GOD's people survived before psychology and psychotropics for close to 6000 years.



The fact is, Christians belong to the marginal group. But we can thank the Lord for providing grace to everyone.

History tells us that a lot who suffered mental sickness were left to their miseries and there were those who received further physical and mental torment because of religious delusions or in the name of religion.

 2009/2/16 1:57Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

passerby wrote:
History tells us that a lot who suffered mental sickness were left to their miseries and there were those who received further physical and mental torment because of religious delusions or in the name of religion.



...and it is still ahppening today.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2009/2/16 9:32Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Who is responsible?

I agree that the term “mentally ill” is unhelpful when it stigmatizes and causes everyone to give up hope on the person. However, I think the author goes overboard. Ex:

Quote:
If we really believe that a person with a mental-emotional-behavioral problem is sick, then we have admitted that he is no longer responsible for his behavior. And if he is not responsible for his behavior, who is?




The bible itself treats sin as an illness - an “incurable wound”.

"Your wound is incurable,
your injury beyond healing." Jer. 30:12


We live in a world where people suffer the horrendous effects of societal and personal sin – be it physical or psychological or whatever. To heap blame on these victims is counterproductive. It is far better to give them a touch of Christ through empathetic identification. In a loving relational context, the ailing person can perhaps dare to make responsible choices - bit by bit. But from having worked in psychiatry I know that even that is an oversimplification in many cases.

The question, “Then who IS responsible for the person’s malady?” is a bad question. Fault and responsibility are not synonomous. It's not about finding the fault, but about the cure. The questin should be "Who is responsible for the healing?" I say: This is a shared load. There is a time to bear someone’s loads, and there is a time when the person is ready to carry his own load.

While an emotionally disturbed person may indeed fail to take responsibility, God gives someone in that person's life the responsibility of being a good neighbour and shouldering some of the burden - as needed.


Diane


_________________
Diane

 2009/2/16 15:01Profile









 Re:

Quote:
passerby wrote: [i]The fact is, Christians belong to the marginal group. But we can thank the Lord for providing grace to everyone.

History tells us that a lot who suffered mental sickness were left to their miseries and there were those who received further physical and mental torment because of religious delusions or in the name of religion.[/i]



Dear passerby - my reference was to the "Bible-Only" - to GOD our Savior & Creator - our Only example - to what HE said and did in HIS WORD.
To the degree that any of us and any of our words deviate from HIS WORD on this topic - we are going "outside of The WORD of GOD" which is also Jesus' Name.

Quote:
Prayer, a brother or sister that is stable in The Word and sensitive to The LORD to talk to & to pray with and feeding on and obedience to HIS WORD and a willing heart & helping people that are worse off then ourselves I believe history can attest to, was what those since creation relied on for a restored or maintained sound mind.

The WORD of GOD is "Living" - as is our GOD - as is our prayers - as is our active faith in HIM & HIS WORD - as is HIS Love for us and in us to others through HIM.

Richard Wurmbrand and multiple thousands of others will testify of this with similar testimonies - some having been literally tortured from childhood on.

HIS Love is the key word in this Brothers.
HIS WORD does heal the mind, if believed in active faith. HE honors active faith. "Trust & Obey" is not just a song - it's true.
Multiple millions of Christians in China, Russia, Africa, Romania, India and so forth can attest to this and since the days of the First Church and back to Eden.
All the countries where "life" itself, from birth on, is at risk, and where these "therapies & drugs" are not available, but GOD has been with those persecuted, tortured and hungry ones, who have given testimony over all of these 6000 yr.s.

Why am I saying this? Because the days are coming that we won't have these "therapies & drugs" ... just as HIS people didn't in our Bibles and times are going to get extremely rough for even the sanest among us.

We're going to need Faith. We're going to have to Trust HIM and HIM alone - even for our daily bread.
And if the Saints in other countries are already tasting tribulation - we should begin to prepare to do the same.

GOD Bless you all with 'HIS' Love, that casts out all fear. Amen.




 2009/2/16 16:47





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