SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Entire Sanctification

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 Next Page )
PosterThread
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:

Mahoney wrote:

The worst that can happen to a believer that seeks after sinless perfection is, Lord willing, they will experience how weak they really are, how wicked they really are, and be convinced that "in them dwells NO GOOD THING."





I came to Christ bankrupt. My capacity to blunder drove me to his feet, and to my astonishment he took me, forgave me, and sent my happy soul singing its way down the years. By grace was I saved, through faith, and that not of
myself — it was the gift of God. I walked in the joy of that for months and then the clouds began to gather. There was something within me not
redeemed, something else down in the cellar that seemed to be sullenly at war with this new life. I was at war with myself.

I think I can see what happened. We live in two minds — the conscious and the subconscious.
The subconscious is the residing place of the driving instincts: self, sex, and the herd. These instincts have come down through a long racial history and they have bents toward evil.
Into the conscious mind there is introduced at conversion a new life, a new loyalty, a new love.
But the subconscious mind does not obey this new life. Its driving instincts drive for fulfillment apart from any morality built up in the conscious mind. There ensues a clash between the new life in the conscious mind and the instincts of the subconscious. The house of man-soul becomes a house divided against itself.

I wondered if this was the best that Christianity could do — to leave one in this divided condition? I found to my glad surprise the teaching concerning the Holy Spirit, and I found that the area of the work of the Holy Spirit is largely, if not entirely, in the subconscious. I found that if I would surrender to the Holy Spirit this conscious mind — all I knew and all I did not know — He would cleanse at these depths I could not control. I surrendered and accepted the gift by faith. He did cleanse as a refining fire. In that cleansing there was a unifying. Conscious and subconscious minds were brought under a single control and redemption. That control was the Holy Spirit. I was no longer at war with myself. Life was on a permanently higher level. It was no longer up and down. The soul had caught its stride. I went on my way singing a new song. That song has continued. It is fresher today than then.

MY TESTIMONY By E. Stanley Jones

I am aware of a sinful nature in me. I am fed up being tugged back like some dog on a chain. I am fed up having no power over sin in my life but find sin have power over me. Yes I am justified but I want everyhting God has for know. I do not believe that sin should have domion over us but that we should have domion over it.

I want the promise know I want to cross the Jordan.

John Wesley wrote:
QUESTION: When may a person judge himself to have attained this?

ANSWER: When, after having been convinced of inbred sin, by a far deeper and clearer conviction than that which he experienced before justification, and after having experienced a gradual mortification of it, he experiences a total death to sin, and an entire renewal in the love and image of God, so as to “rejoice evermore,” to “pray without ceasing,” and in everything to give thanks.

The destruction of Inbred sin in your life is a reality that can be experienced in this life time.

Look at the words of this Hymm. In this generation we have lost sight of the truth.

Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee;
Let the water and the blood,
From Thy wounded side which flowed,
Be of sin the double cure;
Save from wrath and make me pure.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2009/2/11 11:56Profile









 Re:

I could care less what John Wesley or Stanley Jones had to say... what does scripture say?

[b]1 John 1:8-10[/b] [i]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.[/i]

Who is John writing to here? The church. Not unbelievers.

Paul wrote this:

[b]Romans 7:14-25[/b] [i]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, [b]but sin that dwelleth in me[/b]. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) [b]dwelleth no good thing[/b]: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, [b]but sin that dwelleth in me[/b]. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, [b]evil is present with me[/b]. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin [b]which is in my members[/b]. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through [b]Jesus Christ our Lord[/b]. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; [b]but with the flesh the law of sin[/b].[/i]

Doesnt sound like Paul taught sinless perfection.

If scripture doesnt teach it, then throw out all your John Wesley books. They mean nothing if they contradict scripture.

People here tend to quote Wesley, Spurgeon, Edwards, Whitefield, etc as tho they were inspried by the Holy Spirit and every word they utted was scripture. I'm all for reading these great men of the faith... but all of them had parts of their theology that was worth throwing out.

Same can be said for us too.

Krispy




 2009/2/11 12:58
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 454
Michigan

 Re:

KrispyKrittr,

Here are a few more from the same authors:

"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." I John 3:6-9

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin." Rom. 6:1-7


_________________
Wayne Kraus

 2009/2/11 18:05Profile
jlosinski
Member



Joined: 2006/9/11
Posts: 294
North Pole, Alaska

 Re:

The way that "entire sancification" has been explained is that the believer is not actually perfect, he still is subject to "mistakes", but the will and desire to sin is eradicated. The analogy given has been "the litle rebel inside" that is constantly against full surrender to God, once you ask God to sanctify you entirely, you have turned your life completely over to God and he has killed the sin nature that had abided within.

At our last revival meetings, there was a godly woman, I believe in her late 70's, dear Mrs. Boyd, that stood up in tears and confessed her desire to be completely sanctified. I was amazed that though she was raised in a Holiness denomination, she had never felt she had recieved entire sanctification, though the preacher had said that it was not a big thing, but to simply ask God for it. Somthing about that occoruance (sp) did not feel right to me, it seemed more to confirm my belief that as we grow in our relationship with God, we have a fuller realization of what wretches we truly are apart from Christs imparted righteousness.

 2009/2/11 18:13Profile
jlosinski
Member



Joined: 2006/9/11
Posts: 294
North Pole, Alaska

 Re:

Hi Wayneman,
I don't think that Krispy was advocating antinominism with those verses, listen to some sermons on the doctrine of regeneration, the verses cited by you are addressing those that walk in continual unrepentant sin. If you have sinned even once after your conversion, where do you stand? I don't ask this out of strife, but rather ask you to examine your theory by your own experience.
Grace and Peace,
Joe

 2009/2/11 18:21Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

For reference purposes, you may all find Dr. H.A. Ironside's experience and recovery from the Wesleyan/"Holiness" churches interesting.

http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/ironsideholiness.html


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2009/2/11 18:26Profile
andres
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville

 Re:

1.God sees his children pure and holy because Christ stands in thier place. Justification

2. God's children are being made holy by the power of the Spirit. Sanctification

3. God Children will be sinless and pure when Christ returns. glorification

"1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We wont be like Christ, sinless, untill Christ appears,(I john 3:2) of we die and meet him in glory.

love andy


_________________
andy

 2009/2/11 19:42Profile
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 454
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:

jlosinski wrote:
Hi Wayneman,
I don't think that Krispy was advocating antinominism with those verses, listen to some sermons on the doctrine of regeneration, the verses cited by you are addressing those that walk in continual unrepentant sin. If you have sinned even once after your conversion, where do you stand? I don't ask this out of strife, but rather ask you to examine your theory by your own experience.
Grace and Peace,
Joe



Theory? I don't have one, and my own experience certainly dosn't ratify the doctrine of sinless perfection. I know Krispy isn't preaching antinomianism; I just didn't want the thread to end with Romans 7 as if it is a summary of the normal Christian life. If we ignore the chapter break and read 7 and 8 in continuity it is clear that that is not what Paul was saying. I am painfully aware of what Paul means by "another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind," and have no first-hand experience of any state of Christian perfection. But I believe victory over sin is attainable because Paul says in chapters 6 and 8 that the sinful man he describes in chapter 7 is crucified, dead and buried. (ch. 6:6,7)

Peace,

wayneman

*edited for grammar*


_________________
Wayne Kraus

 2009/2/11 21:08Profile
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 454
Michigan

 Re:

Let me reiterate that I don't have a theory or theological axe to grind. I was following this thread intently but hesitant to jump in with my own opinion because I've been studying salvation-regeneration-sanctification--especially Romans 5-8 and First John--for a couple weeks now, trying to get clarity on the subject. I am nowhere near having a comprehensive doctrine of sanctification, and that's not the objective anyway. Instead of striving for exegetical exactitude and adjudicating between warring schools of thought, I'm learning to stand on the promises in the two passages I've quoted, with good results. What I have learned so far is that my walk with God is strongest when I am focused on Christ rather than my own performance.

This is a good thread because we're discussing a critically important subject, on which there is a lot of room for disagreement, without it degenerating into another theological pie fight.

One thing we can surely agree on is that we all want to be as holy as it is possible for a Christian to be this side of eternity.

wayneman


_________________
Wayne Kraus

 2009/2/11 21:45Profile









 Re:

Quote:
What I have learned so far is that my walk with God is strongest when I am focused on Christ rather than my own performance



Amen

 2009/2/11 22:04





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy