SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : General Topics : Article on President Bush

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )
PosterThread
KeithLaMothe
Member



Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re:

Quote:
Brother I am actually quite shocked that this man has not got barely any media coverage on stations such as CNN and others. I have never seen him once or heard of him and that is wrong.

I think he's gotten some coverage from the more liberal news sources, but the republican (not necessarily all the conservative) ones are apparently rather tight-lipped about the Constitution Party, because it poses a great threat to Bush's re-election chances. I readily understand why they're not eager to talk about "Bush's Nader," but you're right, it is wrong.

Quote:
I am actually going to even call them and see If I can broadcast the DVD from SermonIndex.

I'm very happy that you're being so supportive, I think a great many Christians would react in a similar fashion if they actually heard about this beacon of light in a very bleak political world.

 2004/8/2 18:51Profile
All2and4Him
Member



Joined: 2004/6/10
Posts: 39


 Re:

I thought that the article was interesting. On the issue of appointing homosexuals however, it is not wrong to appoint them to places in government. The scriptures expressly forbid christians from judging those who are in the world.

Personally, I believe that George Bush is weak willed and easilly influenced. I think he is a christian, but I think he has comprimised greatly. I dont know whether or not he has left the faith.

All to and for Him

John


_________________
John C. Kelly

 2004/8/2 19:07Profile
KeithLaMothe
Member



Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re:

Quote:
I thought that the article was interesting. On the issue of appointing homosexuals however, it is not wrong to appoint them to places in government.

I expected that some would think that way, and I understand, but my main objection is that Bush isn't really pro-life.

Quote:
The scriptures expressly forbid christians from judging those who are in the world.

We're not to judge them in the same sense as we're commanded to judge sinning professing Christians, no. But are we not to judge them at all? You presumably wouldn't trust a person who claims to be Christian but is a serial murderer. Would you trust a non-Christian serial murderer? If not, you've judged them because of their history of sin (murder, in this case). Judging in that sense is simply taking the available information and making a decision regarding the character and capabilities of the person.

Anyway, the issue about Bush's appointing homosexuals is less damning (possibly in a literal sense) than his pro-choice-sometimes stance.

Quote:
Personally, I believe that George Bush is weak willed and easilly influenced. I think he is a christian, but I think he has comprimised greatly. I dont know whether or not he has left the faith.

Let us pray for him. I hold no ill will for him, nor anyone, I simply think we Christians should recognize that he is not our political champion and thus should not automatically receive our vote. Indeed, I think it is clear we cannot vote for him at all in good conscience if we understand where God stands and where Bush stands on abortion.

 2004/8/2 19:16Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 36870
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
Let us pray for him. I hold no ill will for him, nor anyone, I simply think we Christians should recognize that he is not our political champion and thus should not automatically receive our vote. Indeed, I think it is clear we cannot vote for him at all in good conscience if we understand where God stands and where Bush stands on abortion.


Personally my feeling is if just a few christians don't vote for Bush then Kerry is a shoe-in. But it would be nice for a large amount of people to vote for the consitution party and thus demand media coverage brings something to peoples eyes that they would not choose to want to hear or watch. This fellow even called homosexuality "Sodomy!" which really is the name for it. Well this political thing is a crux because many of the founding fathers if not MOST where genuine Christians and the moral climate of america was mostly Christian, so the thought of an immoral man in any regard being in any part of office would be deplorable. This "Consitution Party" seems like a move back towards the past and it would be progress to go that way.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/8/2 19:22Profile
KeithLaMothe
Member



Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re:

Quote:
Personally my feeling is if just a few christians don't vote for Bush then Kerry is a shoe-in.

It is true that if Peroutka campaigns well, Bush will probably lose. Frankly, I think that (in the long run) would be best for the country: with a democrat in the white house many more conservatives will wake up and fight tooth and nail against the liberal agenda, and even if the liberals make a lot of "progress" in their direction, it will only make more clear to more people how dearly this nation needs leadership like the Constitution Party.

And, as "Ten Shekels and a Shirt" points out so clearly, pragmatism must not trump the conscience, and it cannot justify an immoral act.

I'm not trying to tell anyone who they must vote for, just trying to bring out some apparently-not-very-well-known information and asking people to prayerfully consider it (in the light of Scripture) and act according to their conscience.

 2004/8/2 19:28Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: presidents

Quote:
with a democrat in the white house many more conservatives will wake up and fight tooth and nail against the liberal agenda, and even if the liberals make a lot of "progress" in their direction, it will only make more clear to more people how dearly this nation needs leadership like the Constitution Party.


I was just saying this to my husband a couple of days ago. I believe that even when Clinton was in office, the christians in this country were more uncompromising because they were a bit more "awake".

Just as we discuss on this forum- what is a true christian? Uncompromising in belief, sold out completely to the Lord, follows Jesus example. All of the standards that we talk about on here are for ALL Christians. You either live a surrendered life or you don't. I am doubting that anyone who is really living the true christian life would last long in office- if they even got there (which would be by God's miraculous power alone.) A true christian who must make public statements would be like one of us, or a speaker or pastor we know who knows the truth. Would America stand for a Tozer, a Wilkerson as president- for that matter, a Greg Gordon or anyone one of us who live for God's true gospel, as president? NO. Our beliefs would keep us from probably ever reaching that level and then, the people would never accept that today.

Someone is either a christian who thinks and acts and believes with the mind of Christ- or they have one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom. The bible clearly states that this is not acceptable.

I am not into politics at all but i am very aware of who is living for Christ and who is not. At least this guy from the constitution party is totally sold out for his beliefs and is not afraid to let people know that. He is not a hypocrite in this way.

Just my thoughts. :-)


_________________
Chanin

 2004/8/2 21:50Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: article

I hadn't read the article yet that Keith posted.

Quote:
If Bill Clinton was a President in the image of the nation, George W. Bush is a President in the image of the church, having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. “From such turn away!”



Says much!


_________________
Chanin

 2004/8/2 21:57Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Hi All,

I find it quite interesting to read about the political climate in your nation. I just have a few thoughts on what I have read. In regards to the Christian guy in politics I will tell you the situation here in our nation. We have a Christian party, in fact we have got two, but I will refer to the bigger one. They had allot of airtime as all parties were given equal opportunity to spew their ideas forth, and the ACDP (African Christian Democratic Party) really felt that they could get 10% of the vote. Now as a Christian that sounded great. A voice in government, standing on Christian principles etc, etc. So after the election in the province I live in, they gave their votes away to the ruling party, which was instrumental in fashioning our constitution, which by reports, is the most liberal on the planet. All I can say is ‘go and figure’? WHAT OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE ‘CHRISTIAN’? Politics and Christianity, is there a middle line? Me thinks not, but with God all things are possible, even pigs flying.

To give you a quick background picture, South Africa as a nation claims to be +-75% Christian which is very similar to the States. So you would think that getting Christians to vote for someone that is seen as Christian would be simple, but as it worked out they only got 4% of the vote. So where did all the ‘Christians’ go with their vote? In our nation expediency is a big motivating factor in determining what and who gets voted for hence spiritual virtues are way down on the list.

Politics in this nation is still really split down the black/white line, which really becomes fun in the church, because there are now laws that are down affirmative action lines. This is a system in which the previously disadvantaged majority are preferred over the previously advantaged minority, in all segments of government and corporate activity. It is in place to redress the imbalances of the past, so that our government, businesses, sporting teams all accurately reflect the demographics of the nation. So in a church you have black and white worshipers, who both love the lord, but one is favoured in the workplace and the other isn’t. So the irony is that one member of the same church will experience ‘persecution’, in terms of the jobs that they are able to get, and the other will experience blessing from that same system. Businessmen are being told, unless you have a black partner, forget about doing business. This is especially true in mining and other industries that have exploited people. The minority still owns most of the businesses, so in the workplace, the seeming incompetence of the new regime is always spoken about and because it affects the people that you know, maintaining a godly attitude and perspective is sometimes difficult.

What is Gods plan for our nation, why have we been spared a blood bath? Even without knowing the exact answers, hope springs eternal that God has everything in his hands. One of the redeeming factors is that it makes you trust that God has a plan for your life, so no matter what ‘it is well with your soul.’ I am thankful that what is happening in Zimbabwe has not come upon us yet, but I think in Gods grace he is helping us transition from the old to the new. One thing about Zim, it has driven the church to its knees and we are seeing great spiritual growth in the churches that we work with. There is such a hunger for truth and just for God, it would seem that when you have nothing, what choice do you have?

As far as Bush is concerned, my perception of him is that he is an American first and foremost. Secondly, I think that he has biblical values that are his personal compass. To be in the position that he is in and be fair and impartial with all the people of the USA is an extremely difficult situation. As much as he is a Christian, he is the president of the whole of the United States, not just the Christian or gay or muslim groups. Does he force his own opinion upon certain segments of the population because they don't believe what he believes? He would look like a dictator, its my way or no way sort of attitude. I will say it again, to be the president of such a varied people group is difficult.

Zeke


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2004/8/3 11:28Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4790


 Re:

Someone wrote:

Quote:
And, as "Ten Shekels and a Shirt" points out so clearly, pragmatism must not trump the conscience, and it cannot justify an immoral act.



These days are evil, and we see the fruits of pragmatism don't we. We read an article like this and the darkness is brought out into the light. The darkness brings disdain within our hearts. Do you see what it means to be conveyed into His light? Do you sense the Holy Spirit striving with our carnality?

We have been talking about the hypocrisy within the church. We have discussed what brings weakness and sickness into the church. God's truth does not change. It is us who must choose the love of the truth over our carnal inclinations to compromise. It is compromise that gives pragmatism it's power. The condition of our government should not surprise us because we already acknowledge the compromise of the truth within our church. Only a revival brought about by God in His church can change the course of this nation. The witness of the power of the Gospel is the only hope for our nation.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2004/8/3 12:05Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Article on President Bush


This is a very interesting discussion, and i've been attempting to stay out of it, but i just couldn't after the postings of the brother from Bulgaria, and South Africa ...


Bogoizbrania, from Sofia Bulgaria posted:


--- God use a lot of sinner in diferent ways. ---


And i thought, "out of the mouths of babes, and brothers from a foriegn land posting in broken English" ... But what so powerful, but simple a statement ... To a greater or lesser degree we ALL are sinners, and fall short of the glory of God, but He uses us ALL as He sees fit, to accomplish what He sees fit ... In fact from the time Adam and Eve sinned, God has wrought the birth of His Son to this world via "sinners", and is now in the process of birthing His Kingdom thru the same medium ... we "sinners" ...

i'm reminded of this scripture for those of us who see ourselves as trying harder than the other guy, and in particularl those guys who attempt more than just armchair quarterbacking, and really get suited up, and get out there in the actual game, in political and/or spiritual leadership positions ...

Tit.3
[1] Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, [2] To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. [3] For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. [4] But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; [6] Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour ...



God Himself is the one who has ordained governments, and by God, someone's got to run them, to be at the helm ... If not you or i, because somehow we may have figured that we're not supposed to be involved in this arena of life, then someone who dares to know that "there is no power but of God" ... Someone brave/crazy/idiotic/etc. enought to aspire to a leadership role that's inevitably gonna get him/her torn apart by a multitude of divergent groups all criticising something about him ... i'm not taking myself out of this scenario for i can be as critical, and as judgemental as the next guy, and neither am i saying that some of the blatant errors (willfully or mistakenly) that our public officials make are not wrong ... But when i find my judgment past prayer, and in the realm of total condemnation, then as with Christ Church, i have to remember this following scriptures ...


Rom.13
[1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. [2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. [5] Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. [6] For this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
[7] Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.


1Tim.2
[1] I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; [2] For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. [3] For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; [4] Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


Brother ZekeO posted:


--- Politics and Christianity, is there a middle line? Me thinks not, but with God all things are possible, even pigs flying. ---


This made me laugh and shout Hallaleujah at the same time ... "With God all things are possible" and the thousand of years of human history with it's war, bickerings, injustices, horrid leaders, mediocre leaders, good leaders, Christian leaders, early Church, Roman Church, Protestant Church, and now apostate Church didn't, hasn't and cannot stop the Plan of God marching thru our time, trampling every obstacle ...


Col. 1:[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
[18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


i don't know about the rest of you but i'm a Christian in America, and from my perspective both scripture and my conscience dictate that i attempt to participate toward the good, or as good as it can be, by casting my vote as to who will lead the nation God placed me in (and for His own reasons i might add) ...

I'm an independent, the dread of both partys, i voted for Perot the first time he ran ... My initial thought was to vote for Pres. Bush because he truly seems the lesser of the two evils, as my country is already in trouble because of abortion, and i dread that "stem cell research" and "gay union/ marriage" be added to our blatant transgressions ... That only says to me that our slope, as a nation, will become even more slippery ... But i have to admit that now i'm looking at this new guy, party, that i didn't even know existed that's been posted (so thanks brother Keith and Greg for the info) ... Now i may be able to "vote" with an even clearer conscience than voting for Mr. Bush, for my vote to Mr. Kerry is totally out of the question ...

If there are American saints who read this, and have not voted in the past, then if Mr. Peroutka
is a good alternative for your "good Christian vote", then please register and cast it ... He may not get elected, but "politics" is about numbers, and if Mr. Peroutka gets enough numbers, he'll at least gain a platform to be heard ...

 2004/8/3 13:28Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy