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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Sexual Purity - I hate my flesh

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RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

I want to be careful not to get this thing out of balance. Are we saying that believers 'have' to sin or are we saying that Christians sometimes 'do' sin? I guess I ask because I have a heart desire for perfection. And then what are we to make of Christian Perfection?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/1/29 17:05Profile









 Re:

read

STOP TRYING TO BE GOOD

http://victoryoversin.com/stoptrying.htm

 2009/1/29 17:43
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
I want to be careful not to get this thing out of balance. Are we saying that believers 'have' to sin or are we saying that Christians sometimes 'do' sin? I guess I ask because I have a heart desire for perfection. And then what are we to make of Christian Perfection?



Using the phrase "have to" is a little ambigious, in my opinion, since it used in so many different contexts in our language. When I think of "have to" I think of "forced to". In that sense, I would say that Christians never "have to" sin. Rather, they are deceived by the remaining corruption still in them.

It is also important to note that, while it should never be an excuse for sin, sometimes God allows believers to fall (Peter, for example). From what I understand, this is used to humble and draw believers closer to himself who need chastening.

For a thorough treatment of sin, please consult John Owen's "Mortification of Sin". I highly recommend it!

With care in Christ,
Taylor


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Taylor Otwell

 2009/1/29 18:23Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

RobertW wrote:
I want to be careful not to get this thing out of balance. Are we saying that believers 'have' to sin or are we saying that Christians sometimes 'do' sin? I guess I ask because I have a heart desire for perfection. And then what are we to make of Christian Perfection?



Yes, it is possible to get this wrong. If it is taken that believers "have" to sin... then it's out of balance.

"Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein?"

What I meant about the necessity of failing in order to pass in the school of God is simply learning the lesson the law was meant to teach: the lesson of what we are by nature: undone sinners, failures before God, and no outward law can change that. It might be able to restrain a man for a time, but can't change his nature.

Israel after the flesh (I am generalizing) never seemed to learn that lesson... and rejected the Grace of God when He came unto His own.

You mentioned you have a heart desire for perfection. I do, too.

And then you asked about Christian perfection.

I wonder if this thread is the place to discuss this. Considering other threads I've looked at regarding this, the brother here who seems to be encouraged now will likely end up disheartened. :-)

AD


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Allan Halton

 2009/1/29 18:26Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3386
Louisiana

 Re:

Quote From Robert:

"I want to be careful not to get this thing out of balance. Are we saying that believers 'have' to sin or are we saying that Christians sometimes 'do' sin? I guess I ask because I have a heart desire for perfection. And then what are we to make of Christian Perfection?"

Robert, this is a good question because many Christians tend to go to both of these extremes when it comes to the issue of sin.

Some denominations teach that you are going to sin every day, that it is inevitable that the Christian is going to fall into sin. Christians that believe this false teaching do not have any expectation of overcoming sin, so the result is usually a pattern of sinning and repenting.

The other extreme teaches that a Christian can get to the place in his walk with the Lord where he no longer sins.

The Word of God teaches that we are dead to sin, and if we are dead to sin then how can we continue in sin.

The first epistle of John teaches that a man that says that he has no sin is lying and the truth is not in him, and then it goes on to say "if anyone sin, we have an advocate with the Father". Notice it didn't say "when" as if sinning is inevitable, but "if" which means that a Christian that sins is not to be expected but it could happen.

This same epistle goes on to say that "whosoever is born of God does not commit sin". The Apostle John seems to be contradicting himself, but I believe that what he is saying is that a Christian does not have the tendency to sin because he has a new nature. If we would walk in the Spirit and allow this new nature to have dominion, then sinning would be rare.

The Holy Spirit is conforming us to the image and likeness of Christ. God has commanded us to be holy even as He is holy. We can only be holy to the degree that we are allowing Christ to live His life in us.

Mike


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Mike

 2009/1/29 18:39Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I've looked at regarding this, the brother here who seems to be [u]encouraged[/u] now will likely end up disheartened.



I was thinking tonight about the awesomeness of God's forgiveness. In Matthew 6 and 18 there are some very good example of how God has forgiven and expects us to do likewise. it is wonderful to know that one of the ways we are conformed into the image of God is in our ability to forgive; this tells me that God by nature desires to forgive.

So in that I see a double edge sword; encouraged to brush ourselves off and keep walking with God and potentially also encouraged to keep sinning. ;-) I didn't mean to be a discouragement at all, just wanted to make sure we still had our safety harness on. :-)


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/1/29 21:05Profile
ADisciple
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Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

RobertW wrote:
I didn't mean to be a discouragement at all, just wanted to make sure we still had our safety harness on. :-)



Yes, we must watch that.

"Thou LORD art good, and ready to forgive..."

But if that readiness of God to forgive leads someone to deliberate sin, presuming upon the grace of God... that is pretty treacherous ground.

...And having come to know you a bit the last while, Robert, (in a "virtual" sort of way) I realize you had no intent to discourage a brother, far from it. :-)

AD


_________________
Allan Halton

 2009/1/29 21:36Profile









 Re: Sexual Purity - I hate my flesh


Just wanted to add a verse that has helped me. I find that when I confess my sin - sin that I commit by thought or deed, God is faithful in forgiving my sin, and I walk all the closer to Him because of my confession to my Master.

The verse:

1 John 1:7-9
7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


God bless,

Walter

Quote:

moose34 wrote:
I have done good for sooo long and then recently I have compromised with my eyes and my thoughts.And also my flesh I want to make an oath to God should I do that.

 2009/1/30 1:41









 Re:

Yea, I agree. I try to be good and tried to be the best in certain things. I failed each time. I always try to act as if everything is alright and as if everything is so strong. I was always looking at the positive side and finding some sort of good in myself. This was my idea of Christianity-rejoicing to God for what I thought was right about myself. I will never be good but we can trust in the God that is good. I am desiring for Christian perfection of God. We must not willfully sin however or trust in our flesh. I long for God's complete holiness and the excellence of His Word as we all should. I hate my flesh too even when I struggle too.


1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 2009/1/30 10:29









 Re:

Quote:
Sexual Purity - I hate my flesh

Actually the times that we hate our flesh is after the transaction. Sexual battles are the worst to overcome because they are connected to our emotions and our feeling complexities
Quote:
"That which I hate, that I do".

This is a strange sentence isn't? You would think by hating something as much as Paul I or you, one would think that we'd be overcomers.

In the true sense of the word, we are more than conquerors in Christ Jesus. There really isn't a battle that is to be won, the battle has been won. Christ defeated Satan and his host and is now ruling in the heavens forevermore.

What our trouble is is not being able to withstand the wily tricks of the devil. Not willing to endure and to stand for which Christ died. I think that Brothers and Sisters generally want to overcome sexual impurity, there is a desire to have clean hands, to obtain that quality is also not found. No amount of bible reading and prayer will cause any man to overcome, it certainly is a plus to know the scriptures, but Paul was a learned man and knew the scriptures inside and out and with all his learning he found himself doing thing that he hated.

The answer lies in the simple fact that since our walk started out with Spirit, then by the Spirit we will learn to realize that we are overcomers regardless of what situation we find ourselves in, because Jesus overcame for all men. It is truly
Quote:
not by might, nor by power, but it's by my Spirit saith the LORD.

That is what sets the Old Testament apart from the New. That is why we struggle with this flesh, it's contrary to our new nature. Under the Old Covenant the flesh was used to carry out the law, but under the New it's carried out by a new and living way, and we are simply not apart of that Old system anymore. As long as we are in this body, we will always be contending with our flesh. What is lacking in our experience is knowledge.
Quote:
My people perish for a lack of knowledge

How do we obtain knowledge?
Quote:
ask and ye shall receivee....he that asketh receiveth.



It's not the act of asking that Jesus is telling us to do, it's the passionate desire behind your asking. You see everyone who has ever been delivered of something in their lives it was by desperation. People who are desperate for change, usually get what they are looking for. So if you casually "ask" the LORD He will casually respond. If it's not serious enough for you, it's not serious enough for the LORD to respond. There is something to be said about Faith and a desperate situation. When you read the annals of Israel's exploits in the Old Testament, God showed up when they desperately needed Him. And in the New Testament the veil has been ripped in two making it easy now to come boldly into the throne of grace that we may obtain help in our time of need.

Darkness is what causes us to fret over our situation, but when spiritual knowledge increases the things that held us sway doesn't appeal to us anymore, they just fall away like dead skin.

Remember it's the TRUTH that makes us free. It's not the removal of a particular sin habit that makes us free, because that sin was taken away at the cross. More TRUTH exposed to a dark area of our lives, the darkness is expelled. When God said "let there be light" in a world that was filled with Darkness, all the forces of darkness were drawn back, darkness can't dwell with light it's not possible. However, it is possible to dwell in shadows etc.., but we don't have an idol that is made with stone living in our heart but we have the living God where there is no shadow of turning, light is all around us. If light is all around us then what is the trouble? The trouble is that we are not completely convinced in our mind that God is living in us. Thus we need knowledge, more and more knowledge is added to our understanding until we come to realize that it is no longer I that liveth but Christ liveth in me, and the life that I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God. Paul didn't come to this realization overnight. Paul came to the realization that he was truly dead and the perfect man Christ Jesus had come to maturity in Paul.

That my friends is the hope of glory, Christ in you; coming to perfection/maturity.

God Bless You All!

 2009/1/30 10:33





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