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Discussion Forum : Welcome & Intro : Distraught and so confused!

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RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Josh,

Quote:
I've posted this message because I don't know where else to go to seek Godly council and advice! I don't go to church anymore! Because I don't know where to go!! I don't want to be deceived by these well meaning pastors!



Unfortunately, this is the unintended consequence of well meaning revivalists and well meaning repentance preachers; people that get confused and now don't know what to do. You are probably suffering from [i]sermon overload[/i].

You also write: [i]So I mainly listened to Leonard Ravenhill, Paris Reidhead, Keith Daniels and Paul Washer! and I believed that what these men preach is truth![/i] You also mentioned that your family had preached and you were somewhat exposed to Charismatic type ministry. And yet you are still in the throws of sin and looking for answers.

The reality is none of those movements or men can save you. Listening to these men may carry a certain element of help, but the issue is [u]your right response to God[/u]. When you sense that God is tugging at your heart- just respond to Him. Do what you feel you need to in your heart. It is that simple. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. God can do more in 10 minutes that all the preachers in the world can do in their lifetime. The issue is never who is preaching, it is [i]what is God saying to my heart?[/i]

I would shut out all of the voices that you are flooding your mind with and seek God through His word. Take a break and just simplify things. If God puts His finger on something (not Ravenhill, Washer, Daniel's or Reidhead), but the Holy Spirit. If HE is putting His finger on something- by all means deal with it. People will overload you with all sorts of their convictions until you are as confused as a termite in a yo-yo.

Go back to STEP 1. Respond to Him and allow Him to lead you into His way. Let Him apply His word to your heart and life. This is the job of the Holy Spirit. You do not need these other men. Sometimes they are helpful and sometimes they are not. The word as applied by the Holy Spirit to an open and sincere heart will produce a godly character.








_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/1/28 13:42Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re:

Quote:
RobertW wrote:
You are probably suffering from [i]sermon overload.[/i]

God can do more in 10 minutes that all the preachers in the world can do in their lifetime.

[b]Go back to STEP 1.

[/b]
Excellent answer robert!

Good advice to follow, Josh.


_________________
Lisa

 2009/1/28 19:49Profile
Nellie
Member



Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re:

Good advice here, Josh.
God Bless
Nellie

 2009/1/28 20:44Profile









 Re: Distraught and so confused!

Hello Josh,

When I read your post, it sounds so much like myself! Same preachers, same people telling you your saved, same going back to sins, there's just so much similiar.

The biggest thing in my life is I feel like I'm going to hell all the time and I hate living because of it. The Bible...that's a whole other story. I can't even read it...It's like I hate reading it and I long to read it. That's the best way to describe it. Prayer, well....what's prayer again?

I want to love God but it's so hard. I have this secret hope that when I die, the Lord will come to my aid and tell me that I loved Him all the time I was in the world. That I was his and I didn't know it. I have this secret hope that God will be merciful to me, a sinner. I have this secret hope that despite my sinning, yeah, all of my sins that I do now blatently and all of my sins for ever, would be forgiven forever and never held against me. Oh, how I wish that were the case. If I could believe that, my life would be so different and filled with such a heaven even now.

I'm hard a rock and can't cry no matter what anymore. If God loves me the way I said above though, I could weep forever because of such a love like that.

If I were to die right now though, I risk my eternity with Christ. I may have believed wrongly or have messed up somewhere along thus far in my life. Maybe I haven't believed right or repented right but I risk everything with the God who brought me into this world. With Christ, the King. Specifically with His love and mercy and kindness.

If I die and go to hell and am wrong in my beliefs, I can't say anymore...

I hate how I feel.

However, I want to trust in Christ for everything and I'll go into death with that. That's all.

 2009/1/29 0:44
MJones
Member



Joined: 2008/10/31
Posts: 320
Missouri

 Re:

Paulmcg1,

I cannot seem to click away from your post. I've read it a couple of times. I sit here praying for words that might make difference and yet wonder, as you evidently are a regular here, what words that could possibly be.

Based on what you have said, I have no idea of your background with God. There is obviously some, but as of now you seem to be dead unto God. You mention that you cannot read the Bible but long to be able to and unfortunately these two things just build on each other. The more you do not read the Bible, the more dead to God you will become and the more dead to God you become, the more you will not want to read the Bible.

Since you are a regular here, you may have seen this quote by D.L. Moody; 'This book will keep you from sin. Sin will keep you from this book'.

I'm going to try and weave in my opinions with truth that comes from the Bible. In the end I think I will recommend, as a place to start, that you read the short book that I will be referring to.

You are really no different that any of us. As you apparently are still dead in sin, so were all of us at one time. But just as for many of us, we can refer to that in past tense, you have that very same opportunity. It is nothing more than a choice. You have made yours, we have made ours and we all do it daily. There are no short cuts or magic wands.

Eph 2 begins this way, 'As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of His great love for us, God who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions...

Paul goes on to say in Eph 4, 'So I tell you this, and insist it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more'.

And finally he says in Eph 5, 'For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light... and find out what pleases the Lord'.

Paul is writing to Christians here and if they were not still struggling with the issue, he would not be reminding them to 'no longer live as the Gentiles do'. It is a choice that all of us must make.

Paul mentions that it is 'because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive in Christ even when we were dead in transgressions'. That is not to say, as it seems you might be hoping for, that God would just come down and zap you into another heart. We have to make a choice. We have to decide we want God more than we want the world. Once we make that choice, God will be there. (of course satan will be too to slow us down, but still in spite of all opposition, we must make a choice - there is no easy road)

Hudson Taylor put it this way, 'God does not give us overcoming lives; He gives life to those who overcome'. So much of it is on us to make proper choices. As right choices lead to life, wrong choices lead to death.

You have the same opportunity as many of us who now can say, 'we were dead to God'. It begins with a choice, a first step.

I think that first step, if you really want God as you say you do, is to confess to Him the fact that you are dead in your sin and on the heals of that confess your desire to be made alive to Him. Ask Him for His help and then to prove you want it, open His word and ask that He speak to you through it. (I would recommend you start with the book of Ephesians then maybe Matthew or John) Before you begin reading, as God to speak to you through it. Ask Him to open your eyes that you might behold His wondrous truths. Your longing to read it will soon turn in to a reality. It is your choice. It is that plain and simple.

I do not put all this here arrogantly. It is strong stuff, but then it is serious business. It is different than what I said to Josh. I felt your situations were different. I will be praying for you (and I am not just saying that). I will pray that He speaks to you and that in the process, you 'find out what pleases the Lord'.


_________________
Mike Jones

 2009/1/29 4:33Profile
MJones
Member



Joined: 2008/10/31
Posts: 320
Missouri

 Re:

Josh,

It would be nice to hear from you before we just go on and on and on.

Mike


_________________
Mike Jones

 2009/1/29 4:46Profile
Joshhh
Member



Joined: 2006/11/19
Posts: 9
Calgary, Alberta

 Re: Distraught and so confused!

It would seem that in the first few pages of The Pilgrim's Progress...My very life is being narrated. The very first thing that Pilgrim/Christian says is "What shall I do?"

If my eyes have truly been opened? Would it be safe to say that this is where the pilgrim's progress begins? Although, falling into the slough of despond, of course...If so? Then I still have this great burden on my back.

I'm afraid for my family...because they don't seem to think that they're being deceived. It's not even a matter of me being right and them being wrong. As far as I go? I know nothing! Except what has been revealed to me by God's grace and His Spirit...which even to me now, in my state is still so foreign...but it's a matter of just stopping! Stop and think for a second about what you believe! Examine the evidence! Examine yourself! Compare it to scripture...Is this "gospel" your believing? Is it really the gospel.

I'm afraid because I do not see this happening...It seems as if they're fine with just blindly following their pastor even if he's wrong...It's fearful to see what is happening...and I'm not suggesting to blindly follow just anyone! even those that speak the truth. They should be held accountable by scripture. and that should be a fearful thing! But I don't see any fear or trembling evident, even among their pastor...This terrifies me...

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I also just need to say that I'm so grateful to everyone who responded to my crying out. If my eyes have been opened...then for a time I foolishly fumbled and went the way of my flesh...I fell into that slough of despond. I would that this King would keep me low...and in humility. Thank you, thank you! For praying for me.


_________________
Josh

 2009/1/29 5:00Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re: Trust and Love

Quote:

Joshhh wrote:
I'm afraid for my family...because they don't seem to think that they're being deceived. It's not even a matter of me being right and them being wrong. As far as I go? I know nothing! Except what has been revealed to me by God's grace and His Spirit...which even to me now, in my state is still so foreign...but it's a matter of just stopping! Stop and think for a second about what you believe! Examine the evidence! Examine yourself! Compare it to scripture...Is this "gospel" your believing? Is it really the gospel.

I'm afraid because I do not see this happening...It seems as if they're fine with just blindly following their pastor even if he's wrong...It's fearful to see what is happening...This terrifies me...


Joshhh,

I pray you learn to walk in spirit of trust with Christ, that you need not fear for your parents. God has shown you HIS glorious light, perhaps He couldn't get light to your parents so He chose your life to shine into their's.

Rejoice that if He showed you the light, that He loves them every bit as much as He loves you and He will bring them to Him but you must live this new found freedom before them. You are a new creature in Christ, they will not be able to ignore that your walk has changed, your talked has changed, that there is definitely something different FOR THE GOOD about you.

I believe a little differently than some here, I believe we do not need to always be verbally telling people they are walking wrong or being decieved. That is all people do is yak yak yak about what they believe. There's way too much talking and not enough humbly walking out our faith in front of them.

I believe that if we walk in love with Christ, though they be blind, they will still SEE HIM! Brother, fear not!

God loves you and He loves your parents. Shine on in Jesus' name! Jesus said, "[i]Pray in secret and you will be rewarded openly[/i]."


_________________
Lisa

 2009/1/29 5:54Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3385
Louisiana

 Re:

Paulmcg1 Quote:

The biggest thing in my life is I feel like I'm going to hell all the time and I hate living because of it. The Bible...that's a whole other story. I can't even read it...It's like I hate reading it and I long to read it. That's the best way to describe it. Prayer, well....what's prayer again?


Please read the post that I forwarded entitled "A Sure Salvation" by Watchman Nee. The Word of God says that "In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of those that believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God should should shine unto them." (2Cor.4:4). If the enemy cannot keep us from believing the gospel, he will attempt to deceive us into thinking that we were never saved. The gospel of Jesus Christ is good news to sinners. You can have assurance of salvation.

Mike


_________________
Mike

 2009/1/29 7:12Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Is this "gospel" your believing? Is it really the gospel.



It is interesting to me how the conversion experiences in the Book of Acts were brought about by a fairly simple message of the cross and resurrection. Today, because of many revivalists and repentance preachers (I include myself in that mix), we think we have to give an exposition on the Book of Romans in order for people to be saved. I really think this is a great hindrance more than an asset.

One of the reasons why this is is because the supernatural operation of the Holy Spirit is not appreciated. We cannot give lip service to the Holy Spirit and then try to perform the work with fearful doctrines and messages. One cannot 'doctrinally' be Born Again- they must respond to the Holy Spirit in faith as He is drawing them.

Yesterday I spent the day asking myself a vital question that I'm having a hard time reckoning with. Have I personally ever witnessed [u]anyone[/u] come to Christ and [u]remain[/u] in Christ by the preaching of a fearful repentance message. As of this morning, I still cannot think of a single person I know that came to Christ and has stayed trusting in Christ through this method. Understand that I have been in ministry with many well known names on this site and I still can't think of a single person.

So the issue at hand is not as it appears. We know that people need to be genuinely born again; but what does that mean? There are whole sects that will preach that and turn right around and undermine the operation of the Holy Spirit. I was in a large repentance gathering once where multiple denominations were present and when we got there we found out that we could not preach anything on the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. That is like taking an unloaded gun to a shootout.

So there is little wonder when there is so much caution presented about receiving the Holy Spirit why so few are truly Born Again. Being Born Again does not mean I turn into an ascetic, legalistic form of restraint living. It is the life of God manifest as I yield myself to Him without preconditions. Truly, and I have said this before, if one were to add the sum of how the Gospel is preached by most speakers here on SI together, along with their own individual quirks and preconditions, you would not have enough Gospel left to get the job done.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/1/29 8:03Profile





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