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 Survey - How will the gospel save you?

I would like to learn from as many of you as who would be willing as to how you personally believe the gospel will save you.

I understand that most of you probably believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead, but I am interested in how you believe these facts personally affect your eternal outcome. Basically, I am wondering how each of you believes the gospel works (How does the death and resurrection of a man 2000 years ago make any difference in your life?).

Both detailed and vague answers are desired. My basic desire is to see how the answers agree and how they differentiate from one person from another. Also, if by chance you believe you are saved through the gospel and yet feel that you have no real idea as to how it works, I would like to hear those answers as well (You can PM your response if you would like.).

If you answer is identical to a previous post, please go ahead and post it anyway, for I would like to hear from as wide a range of group of people as possible.

Thanks for any time you are willing to give me in this,
JLH74

 2009/1/23 18:26
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re: Survey - How will the gospel save you?

To understand how believe in the gospel saves people from the wrath of God, it is important to understand concepts like propitiation, atonement, covenant, federal headship, etc.

I will try and give an answer that covers these categories.

First, it must be established that all men are sinful, both originally and actually. By originally, I mean that, since the sin of Adam, we are born inclined to sin (Psalm 51, Ephesians 2). We are born "children of wrath". The simply proof of this is simply to ask your mother. However, most men, being blinded by pride and wickedness, cannot even see their own sin. As we are in bondage to sin, we do not even know at what we stumble (Proverbs 4). We continually deny God, and instead choose the things that he hates, all the while never obtaining lasting pleasure from any of them. By "actually", I mean that we actually sin ourselves out of our own will, which is a slave to sin.

So, God could have justly sent every single person to hell. We have all sinned, and we have all hated God by wanting to be our own God, and run our own lives. However, thanks to his grace, there was an eternal covenant made that God would indeed save some sinful men.

Christ was born of a virgin, he was not of the seed of man, but was conceived by the Holy Spirit. He was also the God-man, being fully God and fully man in one person. He never sinned, as his apostles also wrote (1 Peter 2:22). It was fit that Christ should be a man, so that he could bear the punishment as a man (since God's wrath was against men). It was fit that Christ should be God, since no mere man could withstand the wrath of the Father.

According to prophecy, Christ was rejected by the people, and crucified on the cross. However, as Psalm 22 relates, this was not simply physical punishment, but also spiritual. The full wrath of God against the sins of Christ's people were poured out on Jesus. He carried our iniquities, and suffered the full punishment for them. Infinite wrath being poured on a person of infinite worth. This is propitiation. Christ was the substitute for man. Christ took the wrath of the Father, so that his love could be shed upon his believers. Christ was the fulfillment of the Passover lamb, and the fulfillment of the ram caught in the thicket (Genesis 22). He was the great Isaac who laid down his life as a sacrifice, carrying the wood on his own back.

As the Lord taught us, those who receive and rest in this propitiation are justified. Isaiah 61:10 states that the Lord's people have been clothed with a robe of righteousness. When a person receives and rests in this atonement, they are clothed with the righteousness of Christ. A great exchange has been made. Christ has born sin, so that his people may be clothed with his righteousness. In fact, "atonement" can often be translated as "exchange".

Those who believe in this work of Christ are no longer "in Adam", but are translated into the family of God, and are described as children of God. Christ has become their federal head instead of Adam, and they have been forgiven their sins for Christ's sake and merits, because of the atonement he has made for them. Those who reject such a glorious gospel will stand before God with no "robe of righteousness", and will receive justice. Since finite men have sinned against an infinite God, and sin being even more heinous because of the value of whom it was committed against, they will be punished with infinite punishment.

I hope this is helpful.

With care in Christ,
Taylor


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2009/1/23 18:57Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re: Survey - How will the gospel save you?

Quote:

JLH74 wrote:
I would like to learn from as many of you as who would be willing as to how you personally believe the gospel will save you.

...Basically, I am wondering how each of you believes the gospel works (How does the death and resurrection of a man 2000 years ago make any difference in your life?).




Notice what you said here about his death and resurrection. No one has ever died and rose from the dead three days later. Even if he rose from the dead 10000 years ago, what makes all the difference is that he made the sacrifice for our sins by the death of the cross and he miraculously arose from the dead.
Acts 17:30 (KJV) And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 17:31 (KJV) Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Romans 1:16 (KJV) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

2 Corinthians 5:14-17 (KJV) 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 3:23 (KJV) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 6:23 (KJV) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

God has promised eternal life to all those in Christ who have believed in him for making atonement for their sins and arose from the dead, for death could not hold Him who knew no sin. All who don’t believe in Him will perish in their sins.

Blessings in Christ!

 2009/1/23 20:38Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re: Survey - How will the gospel save you?

Neat question. I concur with Taylor Otwell's post.

The popular phrase, "the gospel saves," is something of a misnomer because the gospel, which means "good news", is simply information which, of itself, does nothing. It is God who saves, and the gospel is a revelatory proclamation of how He does it.

The gospel reveals that God has promised whosoever rests on Christ's substitutionary sacrifice and mediation for salvation, apart from their own works, may have faith that Christ's righteousness is literally imputed* to them, and that their sin was borne by Jesus on the cross. The gospel sets forth a blessed legal transaction orchestrated and administrated by the Redeemer Judge. The aphorism is simplistic but truthful, "Christ bore the blame, saints get His name, God gets the fame."

Faith in the gospel is not the decisive reason why God saves anyone, but is the means through which He reveals whom He is saving, and the appointed method by which He applies the blessings of the cross which were purchased and accomplished in Christ's substitutionary death and victorious resurrection.

The seal of this gift is the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit, who instructs, empowers, chastens, and comforts the saints, causing them to cry out, "Abba", that is, Father. The Holy Spirit is given to preserve believers in their walk of faith, maintaining and successfully preserving them from apostasy. Though moral holiness is inconsistent in each believer, and amongst all believers, this process never ceases or fails altogether because it is carried on by sovereign God.

All who have repented and believed, being born again of the Spirit unto the hearing which is spiritual, have come to Christ and will therefore be raised up on the last day.

John 6:44-45, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I [b]will[/b] raise [b]him[/b] up at the last day. 45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."

*Imputation - To charge; to attribute; to set to the account of. To ascribe or reckon to one what does not belong to him.

Hope that's clear.

God bless.

 2009/1/23 21:44Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: Survey - How will the gospel save you?

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


I was saved through Christ death from the wrath of God for all my past sins and wickedness. Christ death payed for them all. I am now being saved through Christ life that works in me and saving me day by day by making me more like Him day by day, predestined to be conformed to his image. And if I endure and make my election sure and run the race od faith i will be saved for all eterninty when he comes again. He is a mighty savior, I have been encuraged that these verses show me that I have been saved by Christ death, but how much more shall i be saved by his life!

"Christ in me"

this is my righteousness, my hope, my salvation, my everything.

Jesus Christ. in the past ,present and the future.


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2009/1/24 5:29Profile









 Re: Survey - How will the gospel save you?

Quote:

JLH74 wrote:
I would like to learn from as many of you as who would be willing as to how you personally believe the gospel will save you.

I understand that most of you probably believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead, but I am interested in how you believe these facts personally affect your eternal outcome. Basically, I am wondering how each of you believes the gospel works (How does the death and resurrection of a man 2000 years ago make any difference in your life?).

Both detailed and vague answers are desired. My basic desire is to see how the answers agree and how they differentiate from one person from another. Also, if by chance you believe you are saved through the gospel and yet feel that you have no real idea as to how it works, I would like to hear those answers as well (You can PM your response if you would like.).

If you answer is identical to a previous post, please go ahead and post it anyway, for I would like to hear from as wide a range of group of people as possible.

Thanks for any time you are willing to give me in this,
JLH74



To be above board here shouldn't you have declared that you are an atheist apologist looking for information that will be used to help trip up those who are seeking salvation?

I might ask in return. What is it that makes you such a devout opponent of Christ that you should come here to learn more of how to oppose Him? Why spend the effort? Why do you despise Christ so much?


Old Joe

 2009/1/24 9:44









 Re:

Quote:
To be above board here shouldn't you have declared that you are an atheist apologist looking for information that will be used to help trip up those who are seeking salvation? I might ask in return. What is it that makes you such a devout opponent of Christ that you should come here to learn more of how to oppose Him? Why spend the effort? Why do you despise Christ so much?



Joe,

Most who know me would probably agree that the doctrine I believe is far removed from popular doctrine. However, they certainly would not describe me as an atheist. (Even if I was truly an atheist, I certainly wouldn't devote my time to trying to disprove something I didn't believe in.)

I grew up in an Assemblies of God church, and I spent untold hours listening to teachers and preachers during those years. I believed that Jesus died and rose from the dead, and I believed that I saved because of it. However, if you were to have ask me to explain how it all really worked, I wouldn't have had a clue. It wasn't until I was 18 and found a book called "How to win children to Christ" that I finally came to understand many details of the "Christian" faith that I had never before heard. Looking back, I find it amazing that I could of spent so many years sitting under teaching without anyone explaining how the death of Jesus and his resurrection actually made a difference in ones life.

My question was mainly geared to satisfy my curiosity as to how many people were in the same boat that I was as opposed to how many have a very good understanding of the "gospel" they believed.

Now to be completely "above board" let me plainly say that my doctrine and beliefs are most likely far removed from most on this site, however, if I ask a challenging question, it certainly will not be intended to "trip" someone up as opposed to only making them think things through.

JLH74

 2009/1/24 11:54









 Re:

Quote:

JLH74 wrote:
Quote:
To be above board here shouldn't you have declared that you are an atheist apologist looking for information that will be used to help trip up those who are seeking salvation? I might ask in return. What is it that makes you such a devout opponent of Christ that you should come here to learn more of how to oppose Him? Why spend the effort? Why do you despise Christ so much?



Joe,

Most who know me would probably agree that the doctrine I believe is far removed from popular doctrine. However, they certainly would not describe me as an atheist. (Even if I was truly an atheist, I certainly wouldn't devote my time to trying to disprove something I didn't believe in.)

I grew up in an Assemblies of God church, and I spent untold hours listening to teachers and preachers during those years. I believed that Jesus died and rose from the dead, and I believed that I saved because of it. However, if you were to have ask me to explain how it all really worked, I wouldn't have had a clue. It wasn't until I was 18 and found a book called "How to win children to Christ" that I finally came to understand many details of the "Christian" faith that I had never before heard. Looking back, I find it amazing that I could of spent so many years sitting under teaching without anyone explaining how the death of Jesus and his resurrection actually made a difference in ones life.

My question was mainly geared to satisfy my curiosity as to how many people were in the same boat that I was as opposed to how many have a very good understanding of the "gospel" they believed.

Now to be completely "above board" let me plainly say that my doctrine and beliefs are most likely far removed from most on this site, however, if I ask a challenging question, it certainly will not be intended to "trip" someone up as opposed to only making them think things through.

JLH74



So, do you want to be saved or not?

Old Joe

 2009/1/24 12:21









 Re: Survey - How will the gospel save you?

Dearest "JLH"...let me call you "Jacob", because JLH is so impersonal, kind of "THX" (that movie)

so Jacob, I was raised in the synagogue, I was bar-mitzvahed at age 13, I was taught Hebrew, and I loved it all. You never had to drag this child to temple. God was very real and very present to me. at all times, and in all places.

Fast forward 29 years: I was trading crude oil, futures, and in one day, I lost everything, including the savings of quite a few dear friends, and at that moment, after the market closed, I thought I had two options available to me, as the walls closed in, I could either A. put a pistol to my head, or B. find as many drugs as I could lay my hands, and just get "comfortably numb" as the pink floyd song sung. I was veering away from choice A, because I have a son that needs a father, and this choice seemed rather cowardly, because of the effect it would have on this innocent lad.

Choice B, getting as totally "baked" as i could seemed the way to go, but I needed to "clear my decks", as I had to take my son, seven years old to karate class, and this stood in the way of me getting inebriated, so I called his mother, and was totally transparent with her, told her my situation, told her the walls were closing in on me, that all was black, I was having panic attacks, and she said this:

"Neily, when you get scared, just start praying to God, "God please be with me", and dont look behind, dont look forward, just keep saying that prayer, "God be with me", and now go be a father to your son".

(if you knew her, this fiery red-headed Irish lass, the last thing to ask was to try and worm your way out of a committment.lol...not advisable)

So I went out, just hanging onto this simple prayer. "Please God, be with me"...for days, I clung to this simple prayer, and something happened. He answered.

Because I felt this overwhelming need to seek succor, and the only place, my heart told me was a Church, but I didnt know of a Church, so I asked my son's mother, and she told me she would "think" about it. She knew many 'churches", including some...now, I know, that I thank God, she didnt suggest.

The Church she suggested was Hope Christian Church, and I went, and the pastor spoke of Jesus..the Messiah. My heart was warmed, and I left....and all that week, I clung to that simple prayer, and I knew I had to go back next week, and before the service, I went up to the pastor, and said, "pastor, I want to be saved".....and he said, "why don't you listen to the sermon, and if you still feel the same, we'll pray at the altar, afterwards"......and we did...of course we did.

I say, "of course we did", because in retrospect, I was "saved" up in that lonely house trailer on a horse ranch, that day I cried out to God, "Please God be with me", and a merciful God, answered that prayer, and Jesus swept into my life, and took my hand. It wasn;t the Gospel that saved me, It was Jesus that saved me, Him taking my hand, when I got real, when I suddenly realized in the light of time and eternity, how abosultely weak I was and am, how vulnerable I was, how lost I was. It was that CONFESSION of mine, to this weakness, to my sin, the sin of self, the sin of pride, self-centeredness, all the junk that flows out of the human heart....just one simple plea, "God be with me"...and He answered.

and I just want to postscript this all, that what we do on this earth, has effect on others, I was to be after water baptized at Hope, 3 months after my conversion, and right before service my seven year old son, rather percocious lad, says to me, "Daddy, I want to be water baptized too". Understand this, NOBODY pressured him, this was out of nowhere, inside my heart is dancing, but I evenly asked, "Do you know what that means?" and very calmly he responded, "Yes Daddy, it means that I accept Jesus as my personal Saviour". Instead of shouting with joy, as I wanted to, I said, "lets tell pastor Ted what you just told me", he did, and that day, both me and my son made news in Heaven. He's 13 now, and I can testify that this boy has the sweetest spirit and heart you can ever imagine, there's not a malicious mean bone in his body, he's no wimp, but that sweetness, that winsomeness, comes from Jesus, Saviour of the world, proclaiming the Good News, setting us captives free.

Jesus saved the both of us.

much love in Him, neil

 2009/1/24 13:45









 to "Jacob" (JLH74)

I'm still going to call you "Jacob", I pray you don't mind.

Quote:
I grew up in an Assemblies of God church



me too. Hope is an AoG Church, and the pastor I mentioned, thru these last seven years has become one of my closet friends, though I am 2,000 miles away from my home church, and I, like you, have sat thru hours of preaching and teaching.

Forgive me if this seems presumptious, but I can "feel" what you're going thru, even though we all are keepers of our own hearts, and how can one person know what's going on in another's heart? but I can "feel" , sort of, what you're driving at, and I feel the same.

Sometimes, it feels as man, wants to make, what is really quite simple, very complex and very dogmatic.

and the way the Spirit leads me is this; "I believe God". Thats it. Thats my "doctrine".

I also love this verse: "God is love. He who lives in love, lives in God and God in him". thats 1st John 4 and 16 b+c.

The first book, other than the Bible that I read after my coming to Messiah, was Frank Bartleman's "Azusa Street". Being raised up in an AoG environment I'm you've at the very least, you've heard of it, if not read it.

How I love that book! Just thinking about that little old barn in the downtown of LA, this church being "led" by a humble one-eyed black preacherman, with a face scarred by smallpox, who spent most of the service on his knees in prayer, head buried in what was his pulpit, which was really only two wooden boxes, one on top of the other. ...and Gaston Cashwell, the "founder" of the Assemblies, travels from Dunn, NC to witness this revival, sees white people holding hands with black people in worship, gets so angry at this sight, he stalks off to his hotel room, and that night the Lord convicts him of his hard heart and next day he comes back, repents of his racial intolerance, and has hands laid on him, black hands, white hands, HANDS, in the Name of Jesus.

How I love reading of stuff like that!!! Dont go Jacob. I'm not talking about this website, you know what I'm talking about. Don't go. Don't let man and "religion" drive you away from Jesus. He's real.

In base humility, may I proffer one suggestion?
I know you have read thru the four Gospels innumerable times, but just do it once more, and where you see these words, "The Kingdom of God/Heaven is near you", there's where your "doctrine" lays....just once more..please.

so as I dont seem like a hypocrite, I'm going to do the same right now...might take me a few days, coz I dont want to rip thru them, but I'll do it too.

much love, neil

 2009/1/24 14:26





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