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reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 1 John 2:19 confused???

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." 1 John 2:19

Does this mean if I am not in a church right now, that I am not converted and hate the brethren(vs.10)? Thought this was meaning those who were never converted and basically went back to there un believing lifestyle.

1 John 3:15-16
"We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

So does this make me hate my brother if I am not in a church?

Reformer
:-(

edit: taken out some information that was not necessary to the question.

 2009/1/22 19:56Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re: 1 John 2:19 confused???

PM me your city, and I'll help you look for fellowship.

With care in Christ,
Taylor


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2009/1/22 20:19Profile









 Re: 1 John 2:19 confused???

Quote:

reformer wrote:
Does this mean if I am not in a church right now, that I am not converted and hate the brethren(vs.10)?



Nope, in more cases than not, it is a good sign.

I wrote this short article on the subject.

http://www.theinvisiblechurch.ca/invisibly/The_Lone_Ranger_Christian.html

Old Joe

 2009/1/22 21:30
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

God bless you, brother. The question is not whether you presently attend a public church, but whether or not you have visibly forsaken the standards of faith which John describes in his epistle.

Test your heart. Do you desire to be under godly elders, worshiping Christ properly as a part of a visible body, and to benefit other believers locally? If you desire that, keep seeking it. For a time I was without a local church to attend because my conscience forbade me to attend the one I had been with... the pastor suggested we stop setting aside regular time each day for prayer, and to just "have faith that God will take care of things." It seemed he also supported persons who held onto corrupt entertainment to show that we had "grace", allowing an overt easy-believism. I wanted to be with a visible body with godly elders, and the Lord knew it. He revealed one a few months later.

What does the scripture say? Elijah went out to the wilderness, but never left the Shepherd. Even in the desert of solitude, the Lord provided his servant with a brook and bread from unlikely sources. At last the prophet was reunited with the faithful remnant of 7000, though for a time he wandered alone and knew God by not more than a small voice.

Regarding your text, 1 John 2:19, I believe the traditional understanding is "those who went out from unity in the doctrines essentially described by John in the 1st Epistle."

Matthew Henry comments,

Quote:
They were once entertainers or professors of apostolical doctrine: "They went out from us (v. 19), from our company and communion;" possibly from the church of Jerusalem, or some of the churches of Judea, as Acts 15:1, Certain men came down from Judea, and taught the brethren, etc. The purest churches may have their apostates and revolters; the apostolic doctrine did not convert all whom it convinced of its truth. 2. More privately. "They were not inwardly such as we are: But they were not of us; they had not from the heart obeyed the form of sound doctrine delivered to them; they were not of our union with Christ the head." Then here is, (1.) The reason upon which it is concluded that they were not of us, were not what they pretended, or what we are, and that is their actual defection: "For, if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us (v. 19); had the sacred truth been rooted in their hearts it would have held them with us; had they had the anointing from above, by which they had been made true and real Christians, they would not have turned antichrists." Those that apostatize from religion sufficiently indicate that, before, they were hypocrites in religion: those who have imbibed the spirit of gospel truth have a good preservative against destructive error. (2.) The reason why they are permitted thus to depart from apostolical doctrine and communion—that their insincerity may be detected: But this was done (or they went out) that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us, v. 19. The church knows not well who are its vital members and who are not; and therefore the church, considered as internally sanctified, may well be styled invisible. Some of the hypocritical must be manifested here, and that for their own shame and benefit too, in their reduction to the truth, if they have not sinned unto death, and for the terror and caution of others. You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, etc., 2 Pt. 3:17, 18.


 2009/1/22 21:50Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:

Old_Joe wrote:
Quote:

reformer wrote:
Does this mean if I am not in a church right now, that I am not converted and hate the brethren(vs.10)?



Nope, in more cases than not, it is a good sign.

I wrote this short article on the subject.

http://www.theinvisiblechurch.ca/invisibly/The_Lone_Ranger_Christian.html

Old Joe



Thanks joe for the link...I really like the JC Ryle article you posted as well as what you wrote.

 2009/1/22 21:52Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:
Test your heart. Do you desire to be under godly elders, worshiping Christ properly as a part of a visible body, and to benefit other believers locally? If you desire that, keep seeking it. For a time I was without a local church to attend because my conscience forbade me to attend the one I had been with... the pastor suggested we stop setting aside regular time each day for prayer, and to just "have faith that God will take care of things." It seemed he also supported persons who held onto corrupt entertainment to show that we had "grace", allowing an overt easy-believism. I wanted to be with a visible body with godly elders, and the Lord knew it. He revealed one a few months later.



Quote:
Do you desire to be under godly elders, worshiping Christ properly as a part of a visible body, and to benefit other believers locally?


Yes...so much it breaks my heart. i am weeping why I type this out because I desire to be under some influence and guidance of godly men. I always hoped and prayed that I could be a "Timothy" to a "Paul", not for answers or make me feel good, but to have someone who genuinely cares about your spiritual growth and willing to mentor and disciple you. I I miss worshiping with other believers, I love to sing spiritual songs with other believers. I care about others and sensitive to there hurts and pains. I have always been there if a friend needed me, and will always continue to do so.

Quote:
For a time I was without a local church to attend because my conscience forbade me to attend the one I had been with... the pastor suggested we stop setting aside regular time each day for prayer, and to just "have faith that God will take care of things." It seemed he also supported persons who held onto corrupt entertainment to show that we had "grace", allowing an overt easy-believism.



This is why we left our home church a year and a half ago. It has been hard to find something else because I will admit I have a hard time of letting go of the "church method" mentality. I base my assumptions on other churches, maybe I am hyper critical...I truly don't want to be, i carry some baggage I don't know how to let go of... I want to see the radiant church...I don't want to look at all churches in that light...I know there is many with problems and not perfect. But tired of being beat up by others because I am struggling with this! All have left me, many think I am an apostate and unconverted, lost and going to hell..! It hurts me, I maybe a man of 39 years old, I may act tough, but I can't hold it together for to long, I held this facade up for a while and just can't caring it anymore ...I am breaking apart and seems no one understands...this is not coming from anyone on SI or you, many have been encouraging and willing to help. Just had to get this off my chest.

Reformer

 2009/1/22 22:15Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

Reformer wrote,

"I always hoped and prayed that I could be a "Timothy" to a "Paul", not for answers or make me feel good, but to have someone who genuinely cares about your spiritual growth and willing to mentor and disciple you."

Keep praying, keep hoping. "When God shakes the tree of our comforts He brings down the fruits of righteousness." (Watson)
"Blessed is a broken and contrite spirit," "a broken and contrite heart He will not despise." Christ was a man of sorrows and knows what it is to be railed upon and misunderstood for God's sake. "They shall cast you out of their synagogues," and many do so by their doctrines or lifestyles.

Michael, take faith in Christ. Moses was 40 when he went into the wilds. You are yet 39. God who decreed all things is not short of time to fulfill His purposes. Keep waiting, keep trusting that "the judge of all the earth shall do right." Jesus says to His loneliest saints, "Lo, I am with you, even unto the end of the earth."

 2009/1/23 0:45Profile
graceamazed
Member



Joined: 2008/11/3
Posts: 77
Tennessee

 Re:

Reformer,
Just curious about what city you live near in Tennessee. I live in East Tennessee between Knoxville and Chattanooga. I know of a few genuine churches around East Tennessee, if you live in this region.


_________________
Buck Yates

 2009/1/23 8:48Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Spring Hill TN...40 minutes south of Nashville

 2009/1/23 19:34Profile
graceamazed
Member



Joined: 2008/11/3
Posts: 77
Tennessee

 Re:

Reformer,
Sorry, I don't know any quality churches in that area, but I'll keep you in mind in case I hear of one.


_________________
Buck Yates

 2009/1/23 21:18Profile





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