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BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Just for posting purposes:
" What if Calvin's Camels are God's Truth"

[url=http://www.corkfpc.com/camels.html]What if Calvin's Camels, are God's Truth[/url]

I am not Calvinist (meaning I do not label myself anything but Christian), but I do hold to the things of scripture (that more so get labeled as Calvinism) as the truth of Holy Writ.

Blessings to the people of God

 2009/1/17 15:46Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

thanks Michael for the link i read it, i understand the reasoning behind it but i think it is to much explaining away what is plainly there in my own view and understanding of the verse. And when reading it with other verses as scripture explaining scripture it depends on what scriptures we compare to, we can compare to the ones suggested and come to one conclusion, or we can continue to search the scriptures and compare to others such as Joh 3:16 and 2Pe 3:9 and Act 17:30 then it makes sense to me plainly, i need not explain the verses with hundreds of words since one get a sense what God is saying just by scripture.

But i understand how you think brethren, i just hope we examine all scripture so we dont miss what God is saying. Myself is just tired reading much things that make scripture our what it is not, have seen horror interpretations of all sorts of theologians trying explain away certain things that seem very easy if we just read them as they say.

Like Paul Washer says, "if the bible says the barn is red it meens the barn is red"

its simple i think we make it hard sometimes :-)

anyway, Grace and Peace


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CHRISTIAN

 2009/1/17 16:21Profile
int3grity
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Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 76


 Re:

Brother Hmmmhmmm, there is a big difference between comparing verses that mean different things and comparing verses that are parallel, written by the same author, and speak on the exact same subject as 1John 2:2 and John 11:52.


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Ryan

 2009/1/17 17:01Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

int3grity wrote:
Brother Hmmmhmmm, there is a big difference between comparing verses that mean different things and comparing verses that are parallel, written by the same author, and speak on the exact same subject as 1John 2:2 and John 11:52.



well yes it is true, but Joh 3:16 is by the same author, and all authors have the same source of inspiration so i guess as long as they deal with the same subject we are ok. I think the verses i gave are linked to 1Joh 2:2 in many ways and is not wrong in comparing to this verse. Do you agree?


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CHRISTIAN

 2009/1/17 17:06Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: DAVE HUNT'S POWERFUL REFUTATION OF CALVINISM

I am puzzled. Haven't we been encouraged to avoid the topic of Calvinism on SI?


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Ron Bailey

 2009/1/17 17:10Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
I am puzzled. Haven't we been encouraged to avoid the topic of Calvinism on SI?



I will stop discussing it . Thank you for reminding us of our slow obedience.




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CHRISTIAN

 2009/1/17 17:17Profile
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
but Joh 3:16 is by the same author



Brother John 3:16 does not refute what is known as Calvinism. If anything, it only serves to uphold what we(Calvinists, if I must use the term)hold as true.

I know that you are probably saying that the word "whoever" must apply to every human being, but that is not what the language of this text suggests.

There is no Greek word for "whoever" and the wording here would best be translated, "the ones who believe" or "the believing ones".

Here again the Scriptures are limiting the extent of salvation to the ones who believe. Not all will believe(we agree on this), but then the next logical question is "why don't they believe" or "why do some believe"?

Here are some other texts from John that show that he is not jumping from one belief to another-

Consider what is being said by Christ here-
John 17:1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you,
John 17:2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, [b]to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.[/b]

So let us pause for a moment and look at what is being said here by Christ: all authority over all men has been given to Him, eternal life is his to give to men, and it will be given to those whom the Father has given Him.

So our next logical question would be, "what is eternal life?" The next verse answers it-
John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

If eternal life must be given, then how does anyone say man can have when he wants it? Or how can any say that man is free to choose life?

There is also this section from the same author(John)-
Joh 12:37 Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him,
Joh 12:38 so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: "Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said,
Joh 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them."

Notice the pronouns used especially in verse 40- "He". This He refers to God. Look at what He did, He blinded them. This would be contrary to the view that God loves ALL men in a saving way would it not?

Lastly look at another passage by John-
1Jn 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ [b]has been born of God[/b], and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

Does this not suggest that the ones who believe were born first? As this is the way the language is structured(i.e. something has happened to cause them to believe). I am not trying to be "intellectual" as I know that is highly disliked, but I am being fair to what the Scriptures declare and what the author's intentions were when he wrote this.

And once more, may it be known that I am presenting this in love, not to trumpet a doctrine, but instead to look honestly at what Scripture says and glorify our God and Savior.


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patrick heaviside

 2009/1/17 17:27Profile
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Amen Ron. I posted some of these threads on some "other" points of view so they would at least give some people options to believe different viewpoints etc.

I have been getting alot of emails and private messages over people feeling overwhelmed by all the Calvinistically minded brethren pushing their theology in every thread.

I personally am at the point of not allowing any of it anymore for it causes strife and dissension. The Moderators and myself will be crafting together a statement on proper ways to discuss theology on the website and stating if people have agenda's to convert others to their theological persuasion in such extreme ways as Calvinism or others they will be asked not to participate in the forums.

Thank you for your prayers and patience in this saints. I do apologize for my getting "in the mix" of all these discussions on this issue.

This thread is being [b]locked[/b].


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2009/1/17 17:31Profile
Koheleth
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Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
I am puzzled. Haven't we been encouraged to avoid the topic of Calvinism on SI?



I am glad you posted this, brother. I was afraid to!

Just want to chime in with some agreement. It will be a blessing to focus on some other topics for a while.

By the way, good discussion you have going on the church (and other topics) over in the other thread. I have not read every post, but what I have taken in has been an enjoyable read and a refreshing exchange. It is a blessing to see such a lengthy thread develop that has been kept free of strifes. May it and all posts continue so for Christ.

 2009/1/17 17:36Profile





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