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 Re: Jesus vs. Calvinism

Quote:
Jesus is bigger than Calvinism or Arminianism!


[b]Amen![/b]


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2009/1/16 22:15Profile
rbanks
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Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Dear brother Greg,

I very much I appreciate what you have posted. I have read it and my spirit rejoices in the truth of God.

Thank you brother for all your faithfulness to the truth. His word is truth and will stand alone without all the "isms" that so entangles men.

 2009/1/16 22:23Profile
Koheleth
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Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re: DAVE HUNT'S POWERFUL REFUTATION OF CALVINISM

I feel like I want to say something, but don't want to cause any debate! ;-)

I think everyone needs to beware of elitism. (I am not excluding myself.) I don't think it matters if Greg has read this or any other book. I want to know how many times he has read the words of Jesus. I am not putting down teachers or books, but are any statements made more valid because one has read the whole book? That should not be the point here.

I am not any more pro-Dave-Hunt than I am pro-James-White. I am not a Calvinist, but I don't appreciate that a book with an Arminian reference in the title was brought up. Is there one Christian who has ever seen a single soul saved because of a Calvinism-Arminianism debate?

Quote:
"Beware you are not swallowed up in books! An ounce of love is worth a pound of knowledge."- John Wesley



I appreciate this quote from the other thread. We need to beware of any books or authors or perspectives that might obscure or slant Christ in the least. I read a lot, and I have to confess that the more I read the more I appreciate the words of Christ. I have a stack of books I really like, but I am not going to try to promote an author or a book to you. There is nothing on this earth as refreshing as reading through one of the gospels. There, Jesus comes through pure and undefiled. Glory to God for the Gospels!

"-isms" always lead to schisms. Avoid them like the plague.

 2009/1/16 23:01Profile
int3grity
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Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 76


 Re: DAVE HUNT'S POWERFUL REFUTATION OF CALVINISM

Brother Greg, I have been saying over and over how misinformation and misrepresentations of this issue is what causes suspicion and division in the body of CHRIST.

Please, sermon index readers who have read this grievously wrong and deliberately deceptive diatribe called, "What Love is This?" by Dave Hunt, please listen to this honest critique of his book which looks at some of the lies and errors perpetrated in it and exposes the faulty scholarship Dave Hunt employed in creating this Church-dividing book.

You can download it here:

http://www.box.net/shared/42v9bprxfv

It is a critique by Philip Johnson who is an editor who is an authority on Church history, Greek scholarship, and historical theology. He is definitely qualified to review a book like this.




Do you know that Dave Hunt admitted publicly of his ignorance about the reformers (their history and writings) on a radio interview and TWO MONTHS LATER submitted his first manuscripts for his erroneous and divisive book, "What Love is This?"
He is grossly unqualified to have written on such an issue and even though his close friends pointed out the LIES, HISTORICAL ERRORS, AND MISREPRESENTATIONS that permeate his book he STILL published it without heeding ANY correction. It is the height of pride and arrogance.



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Ryan

 2009/1/16 23:25Profile









 Re: DAVE HUNT'S POWERFUL REFUTATION OF CALVINISM

Quote:

sermonindex wrote:
“There is no way that Christ’s death could be limited to paying only for the elect’s sins. To deliver even one person from eternal punishment, no matter how few or many the sins he may have committed, Christ had to pay the penalty demanded by His infinite justice for sin. By very definition, then, [b]the death of Christ on the cross paid the penalty for sin itself which hangs over the heads of the entire human race.[/b]” (p. 251)



So according to Hunt, Christ has also died for the sin of unbelief, thereby proclaiming a universalism. If all sin has been atoned for, including the sin of unbelief, then hell would be empty. The fact of the matter is that is not the case, but if Hunt understood what sin actually was, he wouldn't be so foolish.


Old Joe

 2009/1/17 13:59
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
So according to Hunt, Christ has also died for the sin of unbelief, thereby proclaiming a universalism. If all sin has been atoned for, including the sin of unbelief, then hell would be empty. The fact of the matter is that is not the case, but if Hunt understood what sin actually was, he wouldn't be so foolish.



So you're not forgiven for your sin of unbelief before you were converted? Or you do assume that you have always had faith in Christ?

If you think that you are forgiven for your previous sins of unbelief then the painfully obvious thing is that his death can also atone for the sin of unbelief.

Here are the options you have:

1) You have never had unbelief. Therefore, you don't need forgiveness for the 'unforgivable' sin.

2)You are not and will not be forgiven of your previous sins of unbelief because Christ death cannot atone for the sin of unbelief.

3) You are forgiven of your previous sins of unbelief, which means that Christ's atonement can forgive the sin of unbelief.

What do you believe? Or is there an option I'm missing?

I always thought that if you repented, you could be forgiven. If you can repent and be forgiven for something, either the atonement has no relation to the forgiveness you can receive (this is obviously false) or it does have a relation (which in turn must mean that Christ atoned for it.)

I think you are just misinterpreting Hunt. Do you have some proof he teaches that all men will go to heaven ie universalism?


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Josh Parsley

 2009/1/17 14:26Profile
int3grity
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Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 76


 Re:


Christ paid for the sin of unbelief that Christians live in BEFORE they believe. This unbelief has an ending point. The unbelief of the lost goes on for eternity in hell. People are not sanctified in hell."The doors of hell are locked from the inside" as C.S. Lewis said. Jesus could not die for a sin that has no ending point. The sin of all who would believe has an end, the sin of those who will not believe continues forever. That is why hell is eternal; unbelief is eternal.

Please stop insulting us with illogical accusations which imply we are a bunch of idiots. Do you not think that someone who believes something that is difficult to accept has not thought and wrestled through it? I really grow weary of always being told that I believe in a straw man and then hearing the straw man burned and declarations of victory from those who just set it aflame.

Those who believe in the doctrines of grace, please make sure you rightly understand the other position also so that you don't misrepresent it.


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Ryan

 2009/1/17 14:52Profile
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.


I posted this before and do again, i think it is simple and a correct comment upon this verse.

[i]And he is the propitiation - The atoning sacrifice by which the wrath of God is appeased. For our sins - Who believe. And not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world - Just as wide as sin extends, the propitiation extends also .[/i]

all who repent and believe will be saved universally. All men have a choice to accept Christ and believe and repent. Some do and their unbelief are payed for, some dont and they still have a debt to pay.


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CHRISTIAN

 2009/1/17 15:11Profile
theopenlife
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

Having once held your view concerning 1 John 2:2, Christian, may I submit a brief rebuttal?

It is found [url=http://www.sovereign-grace.com/pink/appendix-d.htm]here at this link[/url].

By this exegesis I was sufficiently persuaded of my former misunderstanding.

 2009/1/17 15:15Profile
int3grity
Member



Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 76


 Re:

Please read 1John 2:2 and then compare it to the parallel passage that John wrote in John 11:52.
Scripture interprets Scripture. If the same author writes two parallel passages and one of them gives clarification and detail, then you can be sure the less clear one means the same thing.


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Ryan

 2009/1/17 15:35Profile





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